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Started By
Message
re: Bama personal foul clarification
Posted on 11/9/14 at 6:14 pm to Mr. Wayne
Posted on 11/9/14 at 6:14 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
Is it really the rule that you back them up 15 yards and then it's 1st and 10?
I don't know the rule, but I've seen it called that way in other games, so I'm guessing it's justified in at least some instances. It might normally just happen after changes of possession.
This post was edited on 11/9/14 at 6:15 pm
Posted on 11/10/14 at 8:15 am to theknightswhosay
Here's what I've found. I don't agree with it, as it rewards the offender. It hinges on whether the ball was made ready for play or not when the foul occurs, and not just the fact that it was a dead ball foul. But it wasn't written with personal fouls in mind, as shown by the appendix example. I guess the call was correct by the rules after all
Rule 5
Foul Between Series
ARTICLE 7. a. The penalty for any dead-ball foul (including live-ball fouls treated as dead-ball fouls) that occurs after a series ends (me: applies here because 1st down/ ”new series” was established by the play) and before the ball is ready for play (me: also applies here) shall be completed before the line to gain is established. (me: Penalty is marked off, then the new line to gain is established. Line to gain established prior to foul is no longer relevant. This essentially rewards the offending team, and in this case gave an opportunity for an otherwise unachievable fresh set of downs at the 6)
b. The penalty for any dead-ball foul that occurs after the ball is ready for play (me: does not apply here)shall be completed after the line to gain is established (A.R. 5-2-7-I-V) (me: this scenario would have resulted in 1st and goal from the 16. But it’s virtually impossible for a personal foul to occur in this scenario, as each team is back on his own side).
Rule 5 Appendix
V. After Team A has made a first down (me: applies here and creates a “new series”), the umpire has placed the ball on the ground at the B-30. The referee waves the umpire away from the ball but before he signals the ball ready for play, snapper A55 snaps the ball (me: far more innocent than a personal foul, and there should be a distinction). RULING: Team A dead-ball foul for delay of game. Five-yard penalty,first and 10 at the B-35. NOTE: This is a foul between series (me: first down was made) in that it takes place before the ball is declared ready for the next series. Hence
it is first and 10, not first and 15 (Rules 4-1-1, 4-1-4) (me: apparently results in moving the line to gain, back with the ball. I don’t ever recall seeing this before, but apparently it happens from time to time).
Rulebook
Rule 5
Foul Between Series
ARTICLE 7. a. The penalty for any dead-ball foul (including live-ball fouls treated as dead-ball fouls) that occurs after a series ends (me: applies here because 1st down/ ”new series” was established by the play) and before the ball is ready for play (me: also applies here) shall be completed before the line to gain is established. (me: Penalty is marked off, then the new line to gain is established. Line to gain established prior to foul is no longer relevant. This essentially rewards the offending team, and in this case gave an opportunity for an otherwise unachievable fresh set of downs at the 6)
b. The penalty for any dead-ball foul that occurs after the ball is ready for play (me: does not apply here)shall be completed after the line to gain is established (A.R. 5-2-7-I-V) (me: this scenario would have resulted in 1st and goal from the 16. But it’s virtually impossible for a personal foul to occur in this scenario, as each team is back on his own side).
Rule 5 Appendix
V. After Team A has made a first down (me: applies here and creates a “new series”), the umpire has placed the ball on the ground at the B-30. The referee waves the umpire away from the ball but before he signals the ball ready for play, snapper A55 snaps the ball (me: far more innocent than a personal foul, and there should be a distinction). RULING: Team A dead-ball foul for delay of game. Five-yard penalty,first and 10 at the B-35. NOTE: This is a foul between series (me: first down was made) in that it takes place before the ball is declared ready for the next series. Hence
it is first and 10, not first and 15 (Rules 4-1-1, 4-1-4) (me: apparently results in moving the line to gain, back with the ball. I don’t ever recall seeing this before, but apparently it happens from time to time).
Rulebook
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