- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Why do people on this board think they know better than the coaching staff?
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:08 am to 337Tiger19
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:08 am to 337Tiger19
Coaches are selected from a pool of candidates, usually big time high school athletes, that are stereotypically stupid. Not all of them are stupid, but a lot of them are. Now, most fans are stupid, too. However, smart fans are usually far smarter than most coaches.
Given that, there are types of decisions that fans shouldn't question and types they should. Who should be playing a particular position is one of the former. We just don't have the data. Take me as an example of a guy who is far smarter than most coaches I think Debo should have started last year. He's looked great every time he's in. But maybe that's because the coaches are keeping him out of situations he can't handle. I trust the coaches on this.
Should we go for it on fourth and one from the 10, or kick a FG? Well, I have almost all the data on that one, so I can second guess intelligently. But do it at the time. As some point out hindsight is always accurate.
Given that, there are types of decisions that fans shouldn't question and types they should. Who should be playing a particular position is one of the former. We just don't have the data. Take me as an example of a guy who is far smarter than most coaches I think Debo should have started last year. He's looked great every time he's in. But maybe that's because the coaches are keeping him out of situations he can't handle. I trust the coaches on this.
Should we go for it on fourth and one from the 10, or kick a FG? Well, I have almost all the data on that one, so I can second guess intelligently. But do it at the time. As some point out hindsight is always accurate.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:51 am to josh336
josh336
Cramps remember? Patrick missed several key plays due to cramping and Julio Jones took one to the house on a play like that. Everyone seems to forget that. One player only has so many plays all out each game so where do you want him, because every down is not an option.
Your point being what!
Safety had position and whiffed it is frustrating as hell but it happens, not on Miles
Didn't we win the game? Enjoy
quote:
9) pp7 not returning punts early on in his career
Cramps remember? Patrick missed several key plays due to cramping and Julio Jones took one to the house on a play like that. Everyone seems to forget that. One player only has so many plays all out each game so where do you want him, because every down is not an option.
quote:
4) auburn 2007, not going for 2 after the d byrd touchdown [/quote
]Well ok, we won
[quote]8) dj welter
Your point being what!
quote:
5) arkansas 2010, end of 1st half defense with only 2 safeties at normal depth
Safety had position and whiffed it is frustrating as hell but it happens, not on Miles
quote:
3)tennessee 2010, end of game debacle, changing personnel in the last 20 se onds with the clock running
Didn't we win the game? Enjoy
Posted on 7/19/14 at 8:57 am to josh336
quote:
Which ones are reaches?
not sure what the defensive ones have to do with Miles? But as far as Welter is concerned, Louis look just as bad last year, had he emerged he would have played much more. Also Trindon was just as dangerous as PP7 and their stats were comparable.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 9:09 am to LaFlyer
How do people not understand that just because we won the game doesn't mean that the decision wasn't stupid?
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 9:10 am
Posted on 7/19/14 at 9:12 am to MFV
quote:
I don't buy the call thing. Put the best player on the field. Someone else can make the calls. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't BT make the calls on the 11 defense.
the middle linebacker is responsible for line adjustments based on shifts/audibles/motion/etc. by the offense. No other player is in a position to make these adjustments. BT was responsible for coverage calls / adjustments.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 9:34 am to LSU=Champions
quote:
How do people not understand that just because we won the game doesn't mean that the decision wasn't stupid?
I will grant you this....as long as people see it the other way too. Just because a call or a play or a decision does NOT work doesn't mean it was a "bad" call or play or decision by the coach. This seems to happen a lot in baseball. Moves that Mainieri makes get crucified on this board all the time, merely because they didn't work.
To summarize: Just because a play works doesn't make it a great call....and just because a play does not work doesn't make it automatically a bad call.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 10:03 am to 337Tiger19
its human nature to question the establishment. do you think u.s. citizens shouldnt question our government politicians?
Posted on 7/19/14 at 11:07 am to LSU=Champions
quote:
How do people not understand that just because we won the game doesn't mean that the decision wasn't stupid?
You do know this a difference between a "stupid" decision and poor execution...right?
How do people not understand that one of the reasons our 2010 OC found a new job was cause of that game ending clusterfrick execution.
It's amusing how some can list each failure/mistake or example of poor execution they see in an 9 yr. coaching career and never speak to the calls/decisions which has enabled LSU football lead all major conference football teams in wins since 05 while playing in the best football conference in the NCAA. One would think we would rank #30 in wins or something like that with all the "poor us" bitching that goes on with the "look at that call" or "look at who is in the game for us" crowd.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 11:16 am to TIGRLEE
quote:I wasn't responding just to you. I was responding in general. simmer down
Read harder next time
Posted on 7/19/14 at 11:48 am to josh336
quote:before the kick? miles called a timeout with 3 seconds left. not sure I'm seeing how this is a major gaffe. you might get a hail mary after the kickoff which I suppose is something but still not guaranteed. this is somewhat of a reach.
ole miss last year not calling timeout on 4th down with 20 something seconds left
quote:even if lsu got 2, auburn could still win with a td and a 2 point conversion. lsu not going for 2 didn't make a difference.
auburn 2007, not going for 2 after the d byrd touchdown
quote:get out of here. the 2 safeties ran into each other. that's a 1 in a million circumstance. the players didn't execute.
arkansas 2010, end of 1st half defense with only 2 safeties at normal depth
quote:you're perpetuating the fan ignorance I've been talking about in this thread. you have no idea what was going on off the field.
kentucky 2007, not playing charles scott in the 2nd half after he went apeshit in the 1st
quote:a timeout was called. Danielson was surprised. he thought they shouldn't have. not sure what you're complaining about.
auburn 2010, not calling timeout before 4th down on the final drive
quote:fan ignorance
dj welter
quote:still more fan ignorance.
pp7 not returning punts early on in his career
quote:it was 3rd and 10 with 2 seconds left.
2008 arkansas game 63 yard field goal into the wind
so you only had 2 legit examples and several non play call examples which wasn't even the point I've been making. good job genius.
btw, is that it? you don't think miles' accomplishments outweigh these few things that made you mad? also, compare this to miles' rivals. has he made more or less mistakes than them?
anyone else want to take a stab at it?
Posted on 7/19/14 at 11:51 am to LSU=Champions
quote:unfairly. he's had many more good moments than bad but, don't let that stop the negatigers!
Miles is notorious for his
quote:every coach has these moments. not one coach ever was free from this. negatigers don't want to compare (and can't since they haven't watched every game ever) because it doesn't fit the hate miles/I'm miserable narrative.
some of them are completely mind boggling.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 12:18 pm to bfniii
quote:
some of them are completely mind boggling.
It doesn't take much to boggle the minds of these negative bitches. They are too retarded to know that the nine years under Miles is the most successful period in LSU football history.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 12:39 pm to TIGERSby10
quote:
A fan's hindsight sometimes is smarter than a coach's initial decision.
Lolno
Posted on 7/19/14 at 12:43 pm to tlsu15
quote:
Time to step away from the keyboard TIGRLEE. You're making a fool of yourself again.
He is the only one in this thread making any sense.
ETA: He and bfniii
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 7/19/14 at 12:57 pm to josh336
Welter ? We lost 7 defensive starters. We downgraded at MLB replacing a 2nd round pick and one of the best ever, that left early. Who wouldve u played there?
Pooch kick could get returned I guess. I'll take the exciting TD with the extra point and take my chances on the pooch Kick off with my best return team on the field. Do u go up 6 there or risk being up only 5. u are incorrect on we lose on a td. Whats the better odds a pooch kick off return against your best or a blocked extra point. This is a major reach imo.
Can u imagine,if we had lost Peterson on his first return? When we had Holiday and several otherS to choose from? Anyone can see the logic here. PP was way more than just a lockdown corner. He was "The Man." He made others better and gave the D a swag that was incredible.
Several other points you made above involving calls. U dont know who convinced who on those calls. Coordinators have egos as well and are convincing in their arguments. Certainly Miles has to take the overall blame for these calls but again these are reaches if u ask me.
"By the way,im not saying other coaches dont screw up LIKE MILES, they do. Which is my overall point. I used MILES for easy examples."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I missed your overall point, please break it down.
Uve certainly made some excellent points and anyone can tell u know your football.
1.Ole Miss 09 I was furious, that was unacceptable.
2.Tennesse wouldve been but we won. Take the good with the bad.
3. Bama 2012 Miles made 4 important calls and went 0-4. Cost LSU the game.A game that saw LSU play one of its better games ever that night. Miles had these guys ready to play with a great game plan and full of confidence. People were saying Alabama could beat Jacksonville that week. This loss hurt the program the most. Probably cost us a shot at the NC and it propelled the Gump's program ahead of us for the first time in quite a while.
4. Clemson - Which did prove they are a program on the rise team that night. I couldnt believe he had that team ready to play like he did. See Gumps last yr against Okla very similar circumstance.
But I will give this one to u, he shouldve ran the ball on that last possession imo.
Ole MIss last yr with a depleted team playing their butts off and upsetting the Tigers. One of the all time greatest efforts and victories for the Rebels.One to talk about for years. A tip of the hat for Freeze and company. Miles accepted the blame himself for this loss, something we've yet to hear from the previous coach.
Going 10-3 last year with that team was his best coaching year to date imo. He's getting better every year.
Pooch kick could get returned I guess. I'll take the exciting TD with the extra point and take my chances on the pooch Kick off with my best return team on the field. Do u go up 6 there or risk being up only 5. u are incorrect on we lose on a td. Whats the better odds a pooch kick off return against your best or a blocked extra point. This is a major reach imo.
Can u imagine,if we had lost Peterson on his first return? When we had Holiday and several otherS to choose from? Anyone can see the logic here. PP was way more than just a lockdown corner. He was "The Man." He made others better and gave the D a swag that was incredible.
Several other points you made above involving calls. U dont know who convinced who on those calls. Coordinators have egos as well and are convincing in their arguments. Certainly Miles has to take the overall blame for these calls but again these are reaches if u ask me.
"By the way,im not saying other coaches dont screw up LIKE MILES, they do. Which is my overall point. I used MILES for easy examples."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I missed your overall point, please break it down.
Uve certainly made some excellent points and anyone can tell u know your football.
1.Ole Miss 09 I was furious, that was unacceptable.
2.Tennesse wouldve been but we won. Take the good with the bad.
3. Bama 2012 Miles made 4 important calls and went 0-4. Cost LSU the game.A game that saw LSU play one of its better games ever that night. Miles had these guys ready to play with a great game plan and full of confidence. People were saying Alabama could beat Jacksonville that week. This loss hurt the program the most. Probably cost us a shot at the NC and it propelled the Gump's program ahead of us for the first time in quite a while.
4. Clemson - Which did prove they are a program on the rise team that night. I couldnt believe he had that team ready to play like he did. See Gumps last yr against Okla very similar circumstance.
But I will give this one to u, he shouldve ran the ball on that last possession imo.
Ole MIss last yr with a depleted team playing their butts off and upsetting the Tigers. One of the all time greatest efforts and victories for the Rebels.One to talk about for years. A tip of the hat for Freeze and company. Miles accepted the blame himself for this loss, something we've yet to hear from the previous coach.
Going 10-3 last year with that team was his best coaching year to date imo. He's getting better every year.
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 2:43 pm
Posted on 7/19/14 at 1:22 pm to LSUANDY25
quote:
Clemson - Which did prove they are an elite program that night. But I blame Miles for the loss.
As HC, Miles is to "blame" for every failure we have.
In the Clemson game, if our QB doesn't miss a wide open R at the LOS from 15 yds away by 5 yds we run out the clock and win.
It's not always just the "call" that decides the outcome. imo
Bama decided to run the ball vs. Aub on a 4th and 1 from the Aub 13 with 4 mins to go and being up by 7. Me...I kick the ball, but Bama, with the OL and RBs they had, should have been able to gain a yd. shite happens sometimes and the rest is history.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 1:24 pm to LSUANDY25
quote:to me, this point is thought provoking.
Going 10-3 last year with that team was his best coaching year to date imo. He's getting better every year.
fans criticize miles but, the 2 main problems I see is that they don't see what miles has to overcome to get to a double digit win season in the brutal sec west. second, they don't compare miles to other coaches on a long term basis. miles has beaten some highly regarded coaches that had great teams at the time. but, this doesn't get remembered. only the alleged gaffes.
now, should miles win more based on the "talent" he has? this overlooks that talent doesn't just come together and be great. if that were the case, every nfl team could forego a coaching staff and every nfl game would end in a tie called due to time limit. it takes much more than just talent and I've listed several factors, some of which are beyond miles' control.
"miles should have won more championships" and "miles cost us a national championship." even saban doesn't win every year. can't bama fans say the same thing about saban? and they're on top of the world right now. they have it all. saban not covering that kick return after beckham ran one back is just stupidity and laziness. saban had no excuse after seeing that it could be done. it's the equivalent of not covering for an onside kick every single kick.
I've wrestled with the last point some lately. should miles have gotten lsu to more sec championship games based on the talent he has? I don't know the answer to the question. what I do know is that he continues to win more impressively than anyone not named bama and keeps the program out of major trouble. I understand this isn't good enough for those who can only measure the program by national championships. he hasn't won in a more popular manner like auburn but, he also hasn't had the pitfalls like auburn. he's consistent and that's not popular.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 1:26 pm to The Mick
quote:
It's call fandom, and its not exclusive to LSU. Also, coaches aren't always right.
Nor are all coaches as intelligent as fans seem to assume - even if they get paid millions.
There are plenty examples of poor coaching decisions re: personnel.
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 1:28 pm
Posted on 7/19/14 at 2:07 pm to lynxcat
Nor are all coaches as intelligent as fans seem to assume - even if they get paid millions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is so subjective.I guess it all comes down to how you measure intelligence. Im not sure Bo Schembechler or Woody Hayes and even the great Bear Bryant wouldve scored a 160. But i wouldnt try to outscore them on a quiz involving their team. Some measure IQ's with W-2's.
There are plenty examples of poor coaching decisions re: personnel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really? Are we talking about your mgt career or your company here as well?
Who wins the battle? The expert that makes decisions live, real time, in the arena or the novice with the benefit of hindsight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is so subjective.I guess it all comes down to how you measure intelligence. Im not sure Bo Schembechler or Woody Hayes and even the great Bear Bryant wouldve scored a 160. But i wouldnt try to outscore them on a quiz involving their team. Some measure IQ's with W-2's.
There are plenty examples of poor coaching decisions re: personnel.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Really? Are we talking about your mgt career or your company here as well?
Who wins the battle? The expert that makes decisions live, real time, in the arena or the novice with the benefit of hindsight.
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 3:21 pm
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News