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Started By
Message
ISIS.. Iraq, Iran, and the US. Understanding the issues
Posted on 6/22/14 at 10:59 pm
Posted on 6/22/14 at 10:59 pm
Another thread was high jacked, and I apologize for that. So here is a thread to talk and debate about the lack of a foreign policy and where we should go from here.
ISIS will become our greatest threat if allowed to stand. Most take that as getting involved in a religious civil war. I do not see it that way at all. ISIS is a terrorist organization that happens to be sunni.
For comparison:
LINK
Read that slowly. This is not what some here are making it out to be. This isn't strickly a sunni vs other factions. This is a terrorist organization taking over and imposing their will.
Let me add another source.
LINK
Look at the link address. Asharq Al-Awsat is the world’s premier pan-Arab daily newspaper, Then read:
Once again, this is not a Sunni vs other factions. IT's a terrorist organization seizing control.
Again, this is not a war of Islamic factions. This is a terrorist group seizing power and land and money.
SO what does the US do? Do we allow ISIS to take control, recruit, gain more weapons and then carry out their plans?
ISIS will become our greatest threat if allowed to stand. Most take that as getting involved in a religious civil war. I do not see it that way at all. ISIS is a terrorist organization that happens to be sunni.
For comparison:
LINK
quote:
When al-Qa’ida in Iraq, the forerunner of Isis, insisted on local women marrying their fighters during the Sunni-Shia civil war between 2004 and 2008, they alienated much of the Sunni community. They killed even minor government employees. “I would rather have my door kicked in by American soldiers than by al-Qa’ida because, with the Americans, I would stand a better chance of staying alive,” a young Sunni man in Baghdad said at the time. Such feelings enabled the Americans to create Sahwa, an anti-al-Qa’ida force among the Sunni.
Read that slowly. This is not what some here are making it out to be. This isn't strickly a sunni vs other factions. This is a terrorist organization taking over and imposing their will.
Let me add another source.
LINK
Look at the link address. Asharq Al-Awsat is the world’s premier pan-Arab daily newspaper, Then read:
quote:
Sunni blocs strengthen rejection of ISIS
quote:
Iraq’s largest Sunni parliamentary bloc has strongly denounced the Islamist militant group the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) and its extremist ideology, as reports came in that the militant group had seized three further towns in the restive Western Anbar province overnight.
Once again, this is not a Sunni vs other factions. IT's a terrorist organization seizing control.
quote:
Parliament Speaker Osama Al-Nujaifi, who heads the Sunni Mutahidoun bloc which won 33 seats in the last elections, has stressed that both the leaders and grassroots supporters of the bloc are completely against ISIS and its “takfirist” ideology.
quote:
He also noted that there are “unsuccessful attempts” to blame terrorism on Sunnis, “although Sunnis are hit the hardest by the crimes of terrorism.”
In this context, Essam Al-Obaidi, a senior figure in the Mutahidoun bloc, told Asharq Al-Awsat that people in the western parts of the country are “paying the price of crimes committed by ISIS gangs and all terrorist organizations, which we have always warned the government about, but it [the government] failed to secure the country’s borders, making it a pass for all gangs and militias going to Syria under the pretext of defending holy places and those coming from it [Syria] in various ways”.
Again, this is not a war of Islamic factions. This is a terrorist group seizing power and land and money.
SO what does the US do? Do we allow ISIS to take control, recruit, gain more weapons and then carry out their plans?
6
Posted on 6/22/14 at 11:03 pm to darkhorse
We'll be fine. Relax.
Posted on 6/22/14 at 11:04 pm to darkhorse
Let the frickers burn. I do not wish to see one more American life lost defending a society which insists on residing in the 8th century.
Call me once they figure out how long range ballistics work.
Call me once they figure out how long range ballistics work.
Posted on 6/23/14 at 2:39 am to darkhorse
This guy disagrees with you
And this guy
LINK
As does Saudi Arabia
But this guy agrees with you
Hmmmm considering you've been wrong on everything else, I'm on the other team
quote:LINK
Far from it: direct military intervention by a Western state -- even if Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki is requesting it -- would dramatically worsen the situation, and ISIS, contrary to what pro-interventionists might say, would inevitably come out on top.
And this guy
quote:
Eleven years on, western leaders should hang their heads in shame at what they have created. And surely now, Tony Blair must lose his job as envoy for peace in the Middle East.
LINK
As does Saudi Arabia
quote:LINK
We also absolutely oppose all foreign intervention and interference. So the call by the Iraqi foreign minister for President Obama and the US government to launch air strikes against the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (Isis) rebels is beyond our comprehension
But this guy agrees with you
quote:
"There is no scenario where we can stop the bleeding in Iraq without American air power," Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters after a closed Armed Services Committee briefing with Defense Department officials. Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/06/congress-divided-iraq-airstrikes-white-house-pressure.html##ixzz35RhHpo4x
Hmmmm considering you've been wrong on everything else, I'm on the other team
Posted on 6/23/14 at 6:01 am to darkhorse
ISIS is a big ole lever bar for the Sunni power players and the Kurds in Iraq. At some point elements of ISIS will jump on the political bandwagon when governance becomes the bigger lever bar for the Sunnis and the Kurds. The rest will keep doing what they are doing now and those same power players will beg Americans to come help clean out the insurgents. Regardless, expect "ISIS" to splinter at the very instant that their tactics are no longer expedient to the interested parties.
Americans keep lumping these extremist groups under the same identity for years and years while failing to understand the fluidity of these types of organizations. The power players use whatever leverage they can get and right now the conflict in Syria has opened up a grand opportunity for experienced and well trained fighters to come in to Iraq and do some dirty work. Just anticipate that every time an explosion or gunshot is reported in Syria or Iraq that it will be credited to ISIS regardless of how tenuous or fleeting the association might have been. That is how we keep the bogeyman alive even if it is unintentional. America just hasn't analyzed non government organizations very well. We continue to try to explain and understand these organizations using conventional methods which in turn lead to conventional responses. A line chart just doesn't work because there are thousands of factors at play, much like an economy really. Economics is also a huge factor in all of this, but that is a whole different conversation IMO.
The best possible move for America is the one that has been made already. Send in the extra security for the Embassy and let the advisers do their thing. At least then we might get some clarity on the situation.
Americans keep lumping these extremist groups under the same identity for years and years while failing to understand the fluidity of these types of organizations. The power players use whatever leverage they can get and right now the conflict in Syria has opened up a grand opportunity for experienced and well trained fighters to come in to Iraq and do some dirty work. Just anticipate that every time an explosion or gunshot is reported in Syria or Iraq that it will be credited to ISIS regardless of how tenuous or fleeting the association might have been. That is how we keep the bogeyman alive even if it is unintentional. America just hasn't analyzed non government organizations very well. We continue to try to explain and understand these organizations using conventional methods which in turn lead to conventional responses. A line chart just doesn't work because there are thousands of factors at play, much like an economy really. Economics is also a huge factor in all of this, but that is a whole different conversation IMO.
The best possible move for America is the one that has been made already. Send in the extra security for the Embassy and let the advisers do their thing. At least then we might get some clarity on the situation.
Posted on 6/23/14 at 11:56 am to darkhorse
quote:
SO what does the US do?
Stop arming groups like this through intermediaries like SA, Qatar, UAE.
quote:
Do we allow ISIS to take control, recruit, gain more weapons and then carry out their plans?
That is what we have been doing. View the fruits. ISIS, I'm sure, will conveniently begin to engage Hezbollah. Hezbollah, a militia, will most likely smash them to pieces. Only a diamond can cut another diamond.
Posted on 6/24/14 at 6:58 am to darkhorse
quote:
SO what does the US do?
give them more weapons and supplies
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