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Started By
Message
1
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:06 pm to boom roasted
Nice thread. I have a question. Sorry if it sounds silly.
With hundreds of miles of beach to land, why did we land in that particular spot where the Germans were already embedded? Why not cruise 20 miles north or south? The Germans could not have covered 100's of miles of beach.
With hundreds of miles of beach to land, why did we land in that particular spot where the Germans were already embedded? Why not cruise 20 miles north or south? The Germans could not have covered 100's of miles of beach.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:10 pm to 1MileTiger
quote:
What the frick do you want them to do? Vroom vroom up onto shore and start running over Nazi's?
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:13 pm to Nativebullet
The Germans had 'developed" over 1500 miles of the Atlantic Wall. We knew going in that Omaha was going to be the most difficult of the 5 beaches. Unfortunately almost all of our bombing and shelling completely missed the beach. The hope was that the shelling would create craters for our troops to get cover in while attacking the Atlantic Wall. Unfortunately because we missed our boys had to run 300 yards into direct enemy fire with no cover or concealment. Frankly it is nothing less than a miracle that anyone lived on that beach and they we able to take it.
Back to your question…we had o take an area that was close to a port so that we could use it to off load massive amounts of supplies. Normandy beach just happens to be very close to the Cherbourg port. Omaha beach was between Gold and Utah and unfortunately had to be taken to protect the flanks of those beaches.
Back to your question…we had o take an area that was close to a port so that we could use it to off load massive amounts of supplies. Normandy beach just happens to be very close to the Cherbourg port. Omaha beach was between Gold and Utah and unfortunately had to be taken to protect the flanks of those beaches.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:15 pm to Radiojones
The whole operation. The planning, the build up, the espionage, is absolutely fascinating
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:15 pm to Nativebullet
quote:
With hundreds of miles of beach to land, why did we land in that particular spot where the Germans were already embedded? Why not cruise 20 miles north or south? The Germans could not have covered 100's of miles of beach.
That's exactly what they did.
Look up the Atlantic Wall.
By 1944, there were defenses all the way from the southern tip of France to the northern tip of Norway.
Now you are right, they can't defend the entire coast EQUALLY well, but part of Operation Neptune was to convince the Germans that the invasion was going to happen somewhere else, and they placed their armies to meet them there.
Most of the fatalities on D-day happened at Omaha....most of the landings were relatively lightly defended.
And Omaha was worsened by parts of the plan falling through.
It was a pure infantry assault onto a hardened position, when there were supposed to be amphibious tanks there as well.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:16 pm to dallastiger55
Actually my understanding is that a couple of destroyers risked the shallows and helped save the day on Omaha by knocking out a few enemy positions.
This forum post will better explain what happened.
This forum post will better explain what happened.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:17 pm to Volvagia
And 9/10 of those amphibious tanks never made it to shore IIRC, the entire crews dying in most
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:18 pm to seeLSUrun
You can go dive off the coast and still see some of the tanks…very sad.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:20 pm to Radiojones
quote:
Posted by Radiojones You can go dive off the coast and still see some of the tanks…very sad.
Sad and, thankfully, still there to remind people about the cost of all "this"
I just wish it was appreciated still...
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:26 pm to dallastiger55
If you visit the beach, you'll be astonished at how far from the water the turrets were. That was a lot of sand to run across.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:30 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Saw a facebook thing merging pics "then and now". Is this area a major French beach destination? A lot of pics had people who look like folks about to hit the water in Destin or Holly Beach.
I only know of it as the site and the memorial. Too damned somber for me to kick back and party where thousands died. And the history dork in me would have a metal detector looking for stuff. How long would it take to clear something like that for tourists? Find all mines and other explosives etc?
I'm not really sure what you saw but this isn't true at all. At least the areas I have been to in Normandy. I've been all over Omaha Beach and it looks very similar to how it did back then. These "resorts" must be somewhere else in Normandy. It also isn't exactly a destination because the weather sucks up there almost year round.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 3:41 pm to Nativebullet
quote:
With hundreds of miles of beach to land, why did we land in that particular spot where the Germans were already embedded? Why not cruise 20 miles north or south? The Germans could not have covered 100's of miles of beach.
Not silly at all.
The Germans had fortifications from Spain to northern Norway. The Allies used Patton to deceive Hitler into thinking the invasion was coming from from a more northern location. Hitler fell for the bait and sent a shite-ton (500,000-1,000,000, not sure on the number) of troops in wait.
The allies invade Normandy and Hitler holds his troops until it's too late.
Imagine if the Germans were really ready for us. I don't think the we make it...
This post was edited on 6/7/14 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 6/7/14 at 4:16 pm to tigerman03
I know at least one ship did.
LINK )
If I'm not mistaken one of the tanks that made it in to the beach started shooting the targets with tracers or something. The observers on the Satterlee were able to see the targets and leveled their guns on the beach. It's all fun and games until the ships start shooting at you.
Edit... found it
The only artillery support for the troops making these tentative advances was from the navy. Finding targets difficult to spot, and in fear of hitting their own troops, the big guns of the battleships and cruisers concentrated fire on the flanks of the beaches. The destroyers, however, were able to get in closer, and from 08:00 began engaging their own targets. At 09:50, two minutes after the McCook destroyed a 75 mm gun position in WN-74, the destroyers were ordered to get as close in as possible. Some approached within 1,000 yards (900 m) several times, scraping bottom and risking running aground.[53] An engineer who had landed in the first wave at Fox Red, watching the Frankford steaming in towards shore, thought she had been badly hit and was being beached. Instead, she turned parallel to the beach and cruised westwards, guns blazing at targets of opportunity. Thinking she would turn back out to sea, the engineer soon saw that she had instead begun backing up, guns still firing. At one point, gunners aboard the Frankford saw an immobilized tank at the water's edge, still firing. Watching the fall of its shot, they followed up with a salvo of their own. In this manner, the tank acted as the ship's fire control party for several minutes.
LINK )
If I'm not mistaken one of the tanks that made it in to the beach started shooting the targets with tracers or something. The observers on the Satterlee were able to see the targets and leveled their guns on the beach. It's all fun and games until the ships start shooting at you.
Edit... found it
The only artillery support for the troops making these tentative advances was from the navy. Finding targets difficult to spot, and in fear of hitting their own troops, the big guns of the battleships and cruisers concentrated fire on the flanks of the beaches. The destroyers, however, were able to get in closer, and from 08:00 began engaging their own targets. At 09:50, two minutes after the McCook destroyed a 75 mm gun position in WN-74, the destroyers were ordered to get as close in as possible. Some approached within 1,000 yards (900 m) several times, scraping bottom and risking running aground.[53] An engineer who had landed in the first wave at Fox Red, watching the Frankford steaming in towards shore, thought she had been badly hit and was being beached. Instead, she turned parallel to the beach and cruised westwards, guns blazing at targets of opportunity. Thinking she would turn back out to sea, the engineer soon saw that she had instead begun backing up, guns still firing. At one point, gunners aboard the Frankford saw an immobilized tank at the water's edge, still firing. Watching the fall of its shot, they followed up with a salvo of their own. In this manner, the tank acted as the ship's fire control party for several minutes.
This post was edited on 6/7/14 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 6/7/14 at 4:21 pm to DallasTiger11
quote:
I'm not really sure what you saw but this isn't true at all. At least the areas I have been to in Normandy. I've been all over Omaha Beach and it looks very similar to how it did back then. These "resorts" must be somewhere else in Normandy. It also isn't exactly a destination because the weather sucks up there almost year round.
The pics were of spots that were as close to exact as they could get to 1944. It's not Cabo or anything by any means. Just pics of nearby towns or villages. And a few isolated roads where they show troops on one side in B&W and tourists in color on other side of pic. Still looks the same though.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 4:33 pm to LSU alum wannabe
Just saying my grandfather was a navy pilot but flew with the RAF ON DDay. Not sure which beach he flew over but he was the first American to land on Normandy ... Had plane trouble and they fixed him up and he was back in the air.
He was 1 of 15 Americans chosen . He'd have been grounded had it taken place On the original date of June 5 due To a sinus infection.
Super proud granddaughter here
He was 1 of 15 Americans chosen . He'd have been grounded had it taken place On the original date of June 5 due To a sinus infection.
Super proud granddaughter here
This post was edited on 6/7/14 at 4:34 pm
Posted on 6/7/14 at 4:55 pm to tiger91
If you ever have a chance to visit Normandy, it is surreal. Stood on water edge looking back to the land and cliffs.
We were there on a June 5th six years ago and had a chance to speak to some of the old men who landed and fought in the invasion.
I will never forget what one told me. He was in the first wave and said he was happy that he was because the second and other waves had it worse. I asked what he meant and he said in the first wave you did not have to see the bodies, so you didn't know how bad it was. Other waves saw nothing but bodies and knew they were in trouble.
We were there on a June 5th six years ago and had a chance to speak to some of the old men who landed and fought in the invasion.
I will never forget what one told me. He was in the first wave and said he was happy that he was because the second and other waves had it worse. I asked what he meant and he said in the first wave you did not have to see the bodies, so you didn't know how bad it was. Other waves saw nothing but bodies and knew they were in trouble.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 5:30 pm to tigerman03
As someone mentioned, naval artillery at the time was incredibly inaccurate. Attempting to fire on fortified locations while troops attempted to storm the same locations would have been suicide for friendly fire opportunities. People have no clue how much the slight oscillation of a wave can throw-off a salvo.
In today's day and age we have incredibly accurate firing systems that rely on extreme super computers to account for wind, oscillations, the curvature of the earth, etc (these were in their early developments at the end of WWII and their increased accuracy is one of the reasons we turned the tide against the Japs in the Battle of the Leyte Gulf), but they were in no way shape or form accurate enough at the time.
In today's day and age we have incredibly accurate firing systems that rely on extreme super computers to account for wind, oscillations, the curvature of the earth, etc (these were in their early developments at the end of WWII and their increased accuracy is one of the reasons we turned the tide against the Japs in the Battle of the Leyte Gulf), but they were in no way shape or form accurate enough at the time.
Posted on 6/7/14 at 5:34 pm to Pennymoney
[quote]
Normandy- Omaha Beach question
The destroyers were too far out to accurately target the germans. They had been ordered to stay far offshore for fear of running aground. Once they realized the landing was hopelessly stalled they ignored orders and got in as close as possible. Once they started firing on the German positions the troops started to advance.
Omar Bradley personally credited the Navy for the landing's success.
[quote]
THIS! According to a quy that was part of the invasion force.
Normandy- Omaha Beach question
The destroyers were too far out to accurately target the germans. They had been ordered to stay far offshore for fear of running aground. Once they realized the landing was hopelessly stalled they ignored orders and got in as close as possible. Once they started firing on the German positions the troops started to advance.
Omar Bradley personally credited the Navy for the landing's success.
[quote]
THIS! According to a quy that was part of the invasion force.
This post was edited on 6/7/14 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 6/7/14 at 5:39 pm to tiger91
quote:
Just saying my grandfather was a navy pilot but flew with the RAF ON DDay. Not sure which beach he flew over but he was the first American to land on Normandy ... Had plane trouble and they fixed him up and he was back in the air.
I'm sure it makes a great story and all.....
But do you realize they dropped 10k paratroopers right after midnight on D-Day hours before the more famous assaults? Saying that you were the first American on the ground is a pretty presumptious statement. Especially given how large scale the drops were. We are taking a 10 minute window at best.
He knew he was the first of everyone in a operation shrouded in secrecy?
This post was edited on 6/7/14 at 5:42 pm
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