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common core continues Holocaust Hoax Assignment

Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:26 am
Posted by darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
7701 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:26 am
LINK



quote:

“An exercise asking students to question whether the Holocaust happened has no academic value; it only gives legitimacy to the hateful and anti-Semitic promoters of Holocaust denial,”


quote:

One of the most important responsibilities for educators is to develop critical thinking skills in students,”
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
465838 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:27 am to
i could see this being a valuable exercise for upper-level classes for advanced/gifted students. 8th grade? too early
Posted by FT
REDACTED
Member since Oct 2003
26925 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:29 am to
Haven't read your link, but from what I recall from this story, the assignment isn't much different from what debate teams do.

I could be wrong. I don't remember too much about it, but that's probably a sign that it wasn't as crazy as it sounds.
Posted by SavageOrangeJug
Member since Oct 2005
19758 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:33 am to
Take them to history class. Students should reply with verifiable facts that show the ridiculousness of the question/assignment.

quote:

"But the most interesting -- although horrible -- sight that I encountered during the trip was a visit to a German internment camp near Gotha. The things I saw beggar description. While I was touring the camp I encountered three men who had been inmates and by one ruse or another had made their escape. I interviewed them through an interpreter. The visual evidence and the verbal testimony of starvation, cruelty and bestiality were so overpowering as to leave me a bit sick. In one room, where they [there] were piled up twenty or thirty naked men, killed by starvation, George Patton would not even enter. He said he would get sick if he did so. I made the visit deliberately, in order to be in position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to 'propaganda'."


Letter, DDE to George C. Marshall, 4/15/45 [The Papers of Dwight David Eisenhower, The War Years IV, doc #2418]

"We continue to uncover German concentration camps for political prisoners in which conditions of indescribable horror prevail. I have visited one of these myself and I assure you that whatever has been printed on them to date has been understatement. If you would see any advantage in asking about a dozen leaders of Congress and a dozen prominent editors to make a short visit to this theater in a couple of C-54's, I will arrange to have them conducted to one of these places where the evidence of bestiality and cruelty is so overpowering as to leave no doubt in their minds about the normal practices of the Germans in these camps."


Cable, DDE to George C. Marshall, 4/19/45 [The Papers of Dwight David Eisenhower, The War Years IV, doc #2424]

"When I found the first camp like that I think I never was so angry in my life. The bestiality displayed there was not merely piled up bodies of people that had starved to death, but to follow out the road and see where they tried to evacuate them so they could still work, you could see where they sprawled on the road. You could go to their burial pits and see horrors that really I wouldn't even want to begin to describe. I think people ought to know about such things. It explains something of my attitude toward the German war criminal. I believe he must be punished, and I will hold out for that forever."


Press conference, 6/18/45 [DDE's Pre-Presidential Papers, Principal File, Box 156, Press Statements and Releases, 1944-46 (1" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noreferrer">


Dwight D. Eisenhower: Holocaust/Concentration Camps
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:39 am to
quote:

Haven't read your link, but from what I recall from this story, the assignment isn't much different from what debate teams do.

I could be wrong. I don't remember too much about it, but that's probably a sign that it wasn't as crazy as it sounds.



Yeah I don't really get the fuss.


I use the analogy of an experiment in physics class to determine g=9.81 m/s^2. The teacher knows the answer. The student usually knows the answer (if they've been reading the book). There is one correct answer (within error bars). If you don't get that answer you did something wrong in the experiment. But you are still expected to proceed with the experiment as if you are unaware of the answer.

There is one correct answer in the holocaust assignment. The evidence for the holocaust is overwhelming. Just about every single talking point on the denialist side can be debunked.

Sounds like an exercise in conspiracy theories to me. Though the moon landing would have been less controversial.
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:42 am to
quote:

Take them to history class. Students should reply with verifiable facts that show the ridiculousness of the question/assignment.



By citing the information in your post - I think you are actually completing the assignment and doing what the teacher had hoped you would do, not showing it is ridiculous. Good critical thinking!
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 9:43 am
Posted by FT
REDACTED
Member since Oct 2003
26925 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:43 am to
I'd really like to read some of the Holocaust denier literature. I've thought about how I'd manage to come up with an argument on that side and for the life of me I can't. It's just such a terrible position to argue from, I'd like to see what they've managed to come up with.
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
78225 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:44 am to
quote:

I use the analogy of an experiment in physics class to determine g=9.81 m/s^2. The teacher knows the answer. The student usually knows the answer (if they've been reading the book). There is one correct answer (within error bars). If you don't get that answer you did something wrong in the experiment. But you are still expected to proceed with the experiment as if you are unaware of the answer.



I am going to differentiate that analogy . There is no material out there that an 8th grader could find, that strongly argues g= anything other than 9.81^m/s^2
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:45 am to
quote:

I'd really like to read some of the Holocaust denier literature. I've thought about how I'd manage to come up with an argument on that side and for the life of me I can't. It's just such a terrible position to argue from, I'd like to see what they've managed to come up with.


Deniers have claimed traces of Zylon-B could not be found in the camps. After that claim was made, some scientists tested bricks from the camps and debunked it.

Another claim is that the diary of Anne Frank is a forgery because it is partially written in ball point pen which was not widely available at the time. While it is true that her father numbered the pages in ball point pen and it is true that a couple of passages were embellished in ball point pen by her father (which he admits to) - the bulk of the diary is in the fountain pen that Anne Frank wrote it in .
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69298 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:47 am to
This is sick. Thousands of Americans still bare the tattoos on their arms. Thousands of veterans still remember liberating the camps, many were never the same again after witnessing that atrocity. Who ever added this to the curriculum is a sick, demented, psychopath.
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
85947 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:49 am to
Critical thinking is a valid exercise at higher levels. Our kids are not well-educated enough to start roleplaying as history doubters at 13-14. Middle and High School should be rigorous learning, not exploration.

Some exceptions for AP and gifted, otherwise save it for college. We need to focus more on packing knowledge into heads, not honing in on gray areas and developing cognitive skills for kids who don't have any knowledge basis to be used for critical thinking exercises.
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:51 am to
quote:

Thousands of Americans still bare the tattoos on their arms


Excellent evidence to cite for the assigment.

quote:

Thousands of veterans still remember liberating the camps, many were never the same again after witnessing that atrocity


The motivated student might find one of those veterans and ask them about it.

quote:

Who ever added this to the curriculum is a sick, demented, psychopath.


yes.

Its far better if the 8th graders don't review the evidence of the holocaust at all. The tattoos. The gas chambers. The eyewitness testimonies. The diary of Anne Frank. None of that should be part of their education, they don't need to know about that crap. They should just take what we tell them as absolute truth and not ask why.


This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 9:52 am
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
69298 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:53 am to
I have no issue with critical thinking, but this is sick. Why not have them perform critical thinking on something that's actually a controversy like who killed Kennedy, was the South's secession from the North Constitutional, Were their weapons of mass destruction in Iraq prior to the invasion, what if we had stayed out of Europe and let the Germans win World War I, what if, what if, what if, to ad nauseum. This is a sick and demented way to try to create more fertile ground to plant antisemitism into the minds of teenagers.
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
78225 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 9:55 am to
quote:

Its far better if the 8th graders don't review the evidence of the holocaust at all. The tattoos. The gas chambers. The eyewitness testimonies. The diary of Anne Frank. None of that should be part of their education, they don't need to know about that crap. They should just take what we tell them as absolute truth and not ask why.


Should we ask them to find deniers for every historical event? There is a lot of history you can ask them to think critically about. Whether something happened at all that is well documented, and only argued by a select hateful few is not the correct choice. This will only expose young minds to bullshite and hate.
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:12 am to
quote:

Why not have them perform critical thinking on something that's actually a controversy like who killed Kennedy



By the same logic, we should abandon basic physics experiments for students - like ball bearings rolling down inclines - since the answers are already well known - and instead have the students look for dark matter.

quote:

was the South's secession from the North Constitutional





I though you wanted to abandon non-controversies. Of course it wasn't Constitutional. The Constitution established a "more perfect union" than the "perpetual" union of the Articles.


quote:

n, what if we had stayed out of Europe and let the Germans win World War I,
Now you want them to investigate things that DIDN'T HAPPEN? WTF?

I hope you aren't a school teacher.


quote:

This is a sick and demented way to try to create more fertile ground to plant antisemitism into the minds of teenagers.



If that's the real intent then it is sick. Judging by the absurdity of the evidence offered in the denialist section of the assignment, I'd find that hard to believe though. Its clearly set up so the student should pick the non-denialist side.

Posted by JEAUXBLEAUX
Bayonne, NJ
Member since May 2006
55374 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:13 am to
They are learning history? The Holocaust is part of Western Civilization. Let them learn what the Nazis did and how advanced Europe really was. Then teach them never again
Posted by wilfont
Gulfport, MS on a Jet Ski
Member since Apr 2007
14860 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:14 am to
If the holocaust never occurred does that make George Soros less of a POS?
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:18 am to
quote:


Should we ask them to find deniers for every historical event?


No. Only the big ones. Its important that our kids learn how to recognize bad science. Holocaust denialism is almost a perfect case in point. After completing this assignment, students will be far more able to spot bullshite.


quote:

Whether something happened at all that is well documented, and only argued by a select hateful few is not the correct choice.


It is well documented by historians and book writers but not *yet* by the 8th graders doing in the assignment. You don't really get the point of this, do you?

Do you actually think we shouldn't bother to tell kids WHY the things we are telling them are true are true simply because we adults already know they are true?
Even better if we can make them go dig up the "why" on their own.

quote:

This will only expose young minds to bullshite and hate.

Of course it will. Its important they recognize bullshite and hate. I guarantee you that students who complete this assignment will be a lot less likely to become holocaust deniers late in life because they would have done the research on their own that proves it happened.
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 10:19 am
Posted by SpidermanTUba
my house
Member since May 2004
36132 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:20 am to
quote:

Let them learn what the Nazis did and how advanced Europe really was.


But God forbid they are asked to go and do the research to prove the holocaust happened to themselves. They should just believe what we tell them. (unless its global warming, of course).


EDIT - I should say INTENT does matter here. If it is true the intent of the assignment is to make holocaust deniers of the students, then obviously its racist. Its also quite futile, as anyone who is asked to dig up evidence on the question of whether or not the holocaust happened will soon find out how overwhelming the evidence is.


This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 10:23 am
Posted by YipSkiddlyDooo
Member since Apr 2013
3786 posts
Posted on 5/6/14 at 10:21 am to
quote:

There is one correct answer


So the student who decides the holocaust was a fictitious event based on his/her research will fail the assignment?
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