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Message
re: Many food and agricultural varieties going "extinct"?
Posted on 4/1/14 at 1:41 pm to TejasHorn
Posted on 4/1/14 at 1:41 pm to TejasHorn
Foods in the US do not go 'extinct.' Even if they are not currently grown anywhere their germ plasm is stored in seed banks. Periodically, the seeds are taken out and planted in lab conditions and new seeds harvested and put back in storage.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 1:52 pm to Zach
quote:
Foods in the US do not go 'extinct.' Even if they are not currently grown anywhere their germ plasm is stored in seed banks. Periodically, the seeds are taken out and planted in lab conditions and new seeds harvested and put back in storage.
Only those who have a license or patent to do so, can hold seeds.
One thing I know is the corn we got from the Indians is so far gone I don't think it can be found anywhere.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 2:09 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
One thing I know is the corn we got from the Indians is so far gone I don't think it can be found anywhere.
Umm, no. If you made an effort to seek out traditionally planted varieties of corn, you'd find plenty of them. Sure, some micro adapted varieties have died out, but (as just one example) you can find ceremonial Hopi blue corn carefully planted and harvested & seeds saved; ditto for traditional varieties planted in many communities in MesoAmerica. It's not all field corn, flint & dent. Places like Victory Seed can hook you up with all sorts of obscure corn varieties: LINK
Again, simply because you can't buy the seeds at your local garden center doesn't mean they're not available. Agriscientists take biodiversity seriously: plant breeders are ALWAYS looking for new material to introduce into their crosses. The biggest proponents of seed saving are often plant scientists in the employ of Big Ag companies.
A guy at NC State is working on a collection of heirloom/traditional collard seeds, and you can always shop with Baker Creek, which has a libertarian bent: www.rareseeds.com
And the previous poster's point about seed storage is an important one. The Norwegians have a huge arse seed vault, full of stuff from around the world: LINK
Posted on 4/1/14 at 2:29 pm to hungryone
Everything I've read has lead me to believe it's not the same variety but a copy.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 2:38 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
Everything I've read has lead me to believe it's not the same variety but a copy.
What do you mean by a copy? Every seed is a new generation of a plant, so they're all copies. Each generation shows genetic differentiation from the parent plant, so unless it's a vegetative clone (aka a "cutting"), the seeds may differ from the ancestor generations over time.
Not sure what you're reading...but corn seeds are viable for an alarmingly long time if kept dry. Modern corn (zea mays) is descended from teosinte, which still grows wild in Mexico. The Anasazi grew sweet corn; here's a source for those seeds: LINK
Again, the stuff planted in 1,000 acre + stands across the Midwest is largely sown from modern seed. But that doesn't mean the other varieties are extinct.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 2:40 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
Posted by Mike da Tigah Everything I've read has lead me to believe it's not the same variety but a copy.
every seed is a copy man.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 3:07 pm to LSUballs
quote:
every seed is a copy man.
I realize that. Poor choice of words. What I meant is that the old variety was lost, and this a recreation of the original, but not the same variety.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 3:18 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
What I meant is that the old variety was lost, and this a recreation of the original, but not the same variety.
Again, not sure what you mean by "recreation of the original". We're talking about genes here: there is no difference between "original" and "recreation of the original". If the DNA is the same, it's the same variety, regardless of whether you can document a clear chain of planting back to the Hidatsa or Mandan or Cherokee (pick your corn planting N American tribe). Old things get forgotten, people use different names for the same thing, but genes don't care what they're called.
It either is the same (genetically) or it isn't.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 3:26 pm to hungryone
Don't bother. He can't admit when he is wrong
Posted on 4/1/14 at 4:07 pm to Mike da Tigah
My great grandfather operated what was the big general merchandise store in Thibodaux a century ago. His name is still on the building. Every thing that could be bought with cash was in the store and that included groceries fresh and canned.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 4:12 pm to CITWTT
I think I found the hippy in this thread
do you also not vaccinate your children hippy
do you also not vaccinate your children hippy
Posted on 4/1/14 at 4:18 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
our ancestors ate what they could grow locally and get their hands on in season. They didn't go to the super market and deliberate on what product to buy that wasn't in season simple because they wanted it.
not but it is stupid to think they wouldn't trade their best loin cloth to do exactly that.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 4:20 pm to SammyTiger
have we talked about GMOs?
:OMG:
:OMG:
Posted on 4/1/14 at 4:22 pm to jimbeam
quote:
have we talked about GMOs?
i thought this is where the conversation was eventually going
Posted on 4/1/14 at 4:53 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
One thing I know is the corn we got from the Indians is so far gone I don't think it can be found anywhere.
True. That's because the seed banks were only created about 100 years ago. Indian corn is waaay older than that.
BTW, Indians didn't plant corn in rows. They bunched them into little 'islands' each stalk surrounded by some beans. The bean sprouts surrounding the corn stalk deterred deer from eating the corn. The deer couldn't stand the smell of beans. I guess it gave them gas.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 6:26 pm to Deactived
quote:
Don't bother. He can't admit when he is wrong
I'm not though.
Posted on 4/1/14 at 7:10 pm to Zach
quote:
BTW, Indians didn't plant corn in rows.
Neither do the farmers in the Midwest/ corn belt. Only the farmers down here and only because of furrow irrigation. Up there it's all planted flat.
Posted on 4/2/14 at 9:41 am to LSUballs
The notion that we've outgrown our ability to produce quality food is simply false. I can go on and on, but I'll only attempt to make a few points.
1.) Only 2-3% of US farmland is growing fruits and vegetables; and about 60% is growing commodity crops. Much of the later is animal feed, which is a poor substitute for ruminants. It would be more efficient to simply let grazing animals graze, instead of using a ton of synthetic nitrogen to fertilize commodity crops and then shipping them to feed lots.
2.) Quality farmland and pasture is being used, increasingly, to build Mcmansions.
3.) Who even attempts to grown food anymore? Sadly few people. Instead, people obsess over lawns and flower beds. If the average household just planted some lettuce, etc think of how far we could stretch the food supply. As recent as WW2 a great deal of produce was produced in home/community gardens. Now we have huge sections of quality land producing nothing. This was once considered a sin in America, akin to draft-dodging.
There are a ton of options to produce enough quality food. But when we accept the premise that we are supposed to rely on mass agriculture produced 1000's of miles away, we create our own fate.
Rant ended. TLDR.
1.) Only 2-3% of US farmland is growing fruits and vegetables; and about 60% is growing commodity crops. Much of the later is animal feed, which is a poor substitute for ruminants. It would be more efficient to simply let grazing animals graze, instead of using a ton of synthetic nitrogen to fertilize commodity crops and then shipping them to feed lots.
2.) Quality farmland and pasture is being used, increasingly, to build Mcmansions.
3.) Who even attempts to grown food anymore? Sadly few people. Instead, people obsess over lawns and flower beds. If the average household just planted some lettuce, etc think of how far we could stretch the food supply. As recent as WW2 a great deal of produce was produced in home/community gardens. Now we have huge sections of quality land producing nothing. This was once considered a sin in America, akin to draft-dodging.
There are a ton of options to produce enough quality food. But when we accept the premise that we are supposed to rely on mass agriculture produced 1000's of miles away, we create our own fate.
Rant ended. TLDR.
Posted on 4/2/14 at 9:45 am to LSUfan20005
quote:
Who even attempts to grown food anymore?
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