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Message
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:30 am to braud2go
quote:apparently the standard is elite not great. great won't get you there
I do not understand the perception that you need a great pg to win the finals
quote:
. He is a great PG but will not take us to a championship
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:30 am to Fearthehat0307
quote:
we have all finally realized that we could be in the title game this year if we didn't have Vasquez
If god damn, motherfricking Anthony Davis hadn't hit that fricking growth spurt as an adolescent, he would be the best PG in the league.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:36 am to braud2go
quote:
Mario Chalmbers (is he really that much better than Gravy?)
Jason Kidd (as good as he was in NJ, in 10-11 was he great?)
Derek Fisher (really)
Derek Fisher (really)
Rajon Rondo (before he hit his prime)
Ill do this to you before Gyno does
quote:
Mario Chalmbers (is he really that much better than Gravy?)
-Lebron, Bosh, Wade
Jason Kidd (as good as he was in NJ, in 10-11 was he great?)
-Dirk
Derek Fisher (really)
-Kobe, Pau, Bynum, Shaq
Rajon Rondo (before he hit his prime)
-Garnett, Pierce, Allen
so all we need is a few all-time greats to pair with Gravy and we'll be set!
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:42 am to MrPappagiorgio
I guess what I was trying to say, none of those teams were built around a "great/elite" point guard. How do we come to the assumption that the Hornets need a "great/elite" point guard to get a ring?
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:42 am to MrPappagiorgio
quote:
so all we need is a few all-time greats to pair with Gravy and we'll be set!
Uh, you see, that argument doesn't hold that much water. Vasquez could wake up with speed tomorrow, and we'd still need at least one more star to pair with Davis. Or to put it another way, a great PG on this current roster would still not make us a contender for a title.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:43 am to THRILLHO
quote:
People said Vasquez could be a starting PG on a championship team. Today's Vasquez would have probably started on 3 of the last 4 championship teams (Miami last year, and LAL 2x).
Based on what? Vazquez has the opportunity to do more because he plays on a bad team. You don't know if Chalmers could put up similar numbers in the same situation.
quote:
Replace Vasquez with CP3 on last year's team and they miss the playoffs.
At full strength and CP3 actually giving a shite? I doubt it.
quote:
PS:I really can't tell if you're trolling or not, so good job if you are.
He's not trolling, this board has mixed feelings on Vasquez.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:46 am to VOR
quote:
Uh, you see, that argument doesn't hold that much water. Vasquez could wake up with speed tomorrow, and we'd still need at least one more star to pair with Davis. Or to put it another way, a great PG on this current roster would still not make us a contender for a title.
Also, having an affordable Vasquez as your starter frees up salary and assets to acquire those stars around him. Replacing him with a star is not possible, so maximizing your ability to build around him is by far the best option.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:47 am to braud2go
Plain and simple, you need great players to win championships. If one of those players is a great point guard then so be it. There is no set formula that you need a great player at position X.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:48 am to MrPappagiorgio
quote:
so all we need is a few all-time greats to pair with Gravy and we'll be set!
Davis is supposed to be a future HOF and Ryan Anderson is new Peja and at Peja's peak he was an MVP candidate. Between cap space and those 2, things are already in place to allow Vasquez to remain with the team. What's missing is what Rivers promises to be, a good defender and penetrator that can get extended playing time when the matchups don't favor Vasquez.
This post was edited on 2/21/13 at 8:49 am
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:48 am to dj30
quote:
Based on what? Vazquez has the opportunity to do more because he plays on a bad team. You don't know if Chalmers could put up similar numbers in the same situation.
Yeah, Vasquez is still able to provide assists with limited offensive options to complete those assists. I assure you, Vasquez helps Lopez score more than Lopez helps Vasquez assist.
Anderson is the only consistent outside threat we've had all year (outside of Gravy himself).
ETA - Chalmers's assist numbers are nothing special with two all-time greats to pass the ball to....
This post was edited on 2/21/13 at 8:51 am
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:51 am to Jester
quote:
Also, having an affordable Vasquez as your starter frees up salary and assets to acquire those stars around him. Replacing him with a star is not possible, so maximizing your ability to build around him is by far the best option.
Damn. You have almost as much insight as I do. Congrats.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:53 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Davis is supposed to be a future HOF and Ryan Anderson is new Peja and at Peja's peak he was an MVP candidate. Between cap space and those 2, things are already in place to allow Vasquez to remain with the team. What's missing is what Rivers promises to be, a good defender and penetrator that can get extended playing time when the matchups don't favor Vasquez.
You aren't going to get much slack because you are loved around here, but this is ridiculous.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:54 am to Jester
quote:
ETA - Chalmers's assist numbers are nothing special with two all-time greats to pass the ball to....
to be fair, thats not his job...
Gravy>Chalmers all day though, so dont think Im trying to argue with you about that
Im sold on Vasquez as the future PG for this team
You have shown me the light
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:56 am to dj30
quote:
You aren't going to get much slack because you are loved around here, but this is ridiculous.
Refute a single point he made in that post, hotshot. I'm only asking for one. He made the following points:
quote:
Davis is supposed to be a future HOF
quote:
Ryan Anderson is new Peja
quote:
at Peja's peak he was an MVP candidate
quote:
things are already in place to allow Vasquez to remain with the team.
quote:
What's missing is what Rivers promises to be, a good defender and penetrator that can get extended playing time when the matchups don't favor Vasquez.
Refute any of them. The only one you have any hope of refuting is that promises may have been a slightly strong term, but that's debatable.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 8:58 am to Jester
quote:
ETA - Chalmers's assist numbers are nothing special with two all-time greats to pass the ball to....
All time greats who score off of isolation majority of the time. Also LeBron brings the ball up the court a good bit of the time.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 9:00 am to MrPappagiorgio
quote:
to be fair, thats not his job...
Absolutely. But let's talk about what his job really is. His job is to defend the opposing point guard, hit an occasional shot, and occasionally advance the ball upcourt. He is the definition of a role-playing starter, but that's all they need him to be. That's kind of the point.
quote:
Gravy>Chalmers all day though, so dont think Im trying to argue with you about that
I agree. I don't expect him to make any all-star teams, but he seems like a hell of a leader and works to improve constantly. Those are exactly the types of guys we need to keep around through this rebuild to help the young guns grow.
Posted on 2/21/13 at 9:01 am to Jester
quote:
quote: Davis is supposed to be a future HOF
quote:
quote: Ryan Anderson is new Peja
quote:
quote: things are already in place to allow Vasquez to remain with the team.
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