quote:
Spielberg is, not Opum. And, those are nowhere near $10 words. Only one of them is even three syllables, and that's by adding an -ing. But I see that you identify with anti-intellectualism almost instinctively.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Anti-intellectualism? How the frick do I identify with "anti-intellectualism?" I only combated your point about Opum's character representing the draft dodging baby boomers which amounts to Spielberg wallowing in self-pity.

And how is what I said anti-intellectual? I have no issue with intellectuals, intellectual behavior, or intellect. Hell, I am an intellectual, though I don't throw around words such as "effete" - which is at least a $5 word - on a message board like a strutting peacock. By the way, "haliography" doesn't make a damn bit of sense as used in this context, but I digress.

In the context of the film, Hanks is an intellectual. The role of teacher classically is one of an intellectual. Moreover, Hanks' character is routinely engaged in his own thoughts, has affinity for the spoken and written word, and has a superb mind. As for the fact that the others didn't know he was college educated or a teacher, that is of little to no consequence to him being an intellectual. The fact that his behavior is that of an intellectual, that he does read the classics, that he can go toe-to-toe with Opum is enough to show that he is an intellectual. The fact that he hid his intellect from his group highlights exactly what you are driving at: that the general notion of the intellectual is of a weak-kneed, effete arse who couldn't hold a rifle let alone shoot it straight. But Hanks' character CAN do that and after Opum sees the grit of war, so can he. The fact that Opum is a wuss throughout most of the film highlights his dramatic change as a result of the war and shows, again, that the stereotype of the weak intellectual is misplaced.

And how the frick is it boomer narcissism to claim that the generation before them was the Greatest Generation? That makes no fricking sense and is completely bass ackwards. It would be narcissistic if the boomers were attempting to claim they were the greatest ever.

As for why I said Spielberg didn't write the film, you mentioned that this film highlighted Spielberg's self-pity and how it "talk[ed] about what a loser and a coward he is." The fact that he didn't write the film is certainly evidence against this notion.

In any case, you seem to be more interested in winning your argument by beating me, or anyone who disagrees with you, over the head with stilted language rather than precise argument. No matter how you slice it, your argument has flaws.

I'm not saying the boomer generation doesn't have some sick need to apologize to the "Greatest Generation" for being "draft dodgers," but I think you may be reading far too into this. I have pointed out the weaknesses in your assessment of the film's characters as a result. Please feel free to attack my intellect by condemning me as an "anti-intellectual" all you want. I stand by my disagreement with you and I have offered clear argument.

That said, I'm not here to change your mind on the film. You don't like it. That's fine.

This post was edited on 1/15/13 at 4:29 pm

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Posted by H-Town Tiger

Member since Nov 2003

59193 posts

Posted on 1/15/13 at 4:31 pm to LoveThatMoney

quote:
And how the frick is it boomer narcissism to claim that the generation before them was the Greatest Generation?

because it is boomers parents and the boomers claim that it is the greatest generation.

quote:
It would be narcissistic if the boomers were attempting to claim they were the greatest ever.

This they have done over and over.

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Posted by Baloo

Formerly MDGeaux

Member since Sep 2003

49645 posts

Posted on 1/15/13 at 5:01 pm to LoveThatMoney

quote:
And how is what I said anti-intellectual? I have no issue with intellectuals, intellectual behavior, or intellect. Hell, I am an intellectual, though I don't throw around words such as "effete" - which is at least a $5 word - on a message board like a strutting peacock. By the way, "haliography" doesn't make a damn bit of sense as used in this context, but I digress.

It is an inherently anti-intellectual argument to insult the other person for using big words. Particularly when the words you pointed out weren't very big. But whatever. That's neither here nor there. I think it's an anti-intellectual film, but that doesn't make Spielberg inherently anti-intellectual. I used "effete" because the word fit, by the way. Sorry you have a problem with it. I talk the way I talk (or type the way I type).

And I think it is a haliography. I don't think the film has any purpose for existing other than to say how great the WWI generation is. It is the film's raison d'etre. I don't even think any person involved would deny that is the purpose of the film. Not only does the term haliography fit, I'd say this is the most haliographic film possible. It is all about proclaiming the greatness of the "Band of Brothers".

quote:
In the context of the film, Hanks is an intellectual. The role of teacher classically is one of an intellectual. Moreover, Hanks' character is routinely engaged in his own thoughts, has affinity for the spoken and written word, and has a superb mind. As for the fact that the others didn't know he was college educated or a teacher, that is of little to no consequence to him being an intellectual. The fact that his behavior is that of an intellectual, that he does read the classics, that he can go toe-to-toe with Opum is enough to show that he is an intellectual. The fact that he hid his intellect from his group highlights exactly what you are driving at: that the general notion of the intellectual is of a weak-kneed, effete arse who couldn't hold a rifle let alone shoot it straight. But Hanks' character CAN do that and after Opum sees the grit of war, so can he. The fact that Opum is a wuss throughout most of the film highlights his dramatic change as a result of the war and shows, again, that the stereotype of the weak intellectual is misplaced.

I think that's a very generous reading of Opum's character that is not really in the text of the film. I think his character is thoroughly repudiated as being wrong in all of his beliefs. He is not the moral center, he is a weakling and it is only when he rejects his prior beliefs is when he can become one of the boys. And its not like murdering a guy who was surrendering was a brave act, but let's not delve into that. He's a weak character you're meant to dislike.

quote:
As for why I said Spielberg didn't write the film, you mentioned that this film highlighted Spielberg's self-pity and how it "talk[ed] about what a loser and a coward he is." The fact that he didn't write the film is certainly evidence against this notion.

In any case, you seem to be more interested in winning your argument by beating me, or anyone who disagrees with you, over the head with stilted language rather than precise argument. No matter how you slice it, your argument has flaws.

Spielberg is the director and is thus the "author" of the film. He's responsible for the tone and pretty much the entire final product. So yes, it is his attitudes which matter. But you can use the artful dodge of saying someone else wrote it, but the criticism that it is the Boomer generation wallowing in self-pity for rejecting their fathers still holds water. Extend it to the writer as well.

I'm not interested in stilted language or whatever, but you really seem hung up on my word choices. I don't really care. But I think it's odd you engage in ad hominem attacks or dodges of my argument and then have the gall to talk about the intellectual honesty of my argument.

Clearly, my argument was about the Boomer attitude towards the "Greatest Generation", but you want me to be this guy who is concerned with Spielberg personally. I'm not. My problem with the film has to do with the Boomer narcissism and how this film serves as an apology to their fathers. My general attitude is that I'm not the one with the daddy issues, and I wish it had been left out of the film.

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