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Message
The problem with "Star" rankings is
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:22 pm
The kids don't realize they are two, three, four, or five. Somebody forget's to tell the three star that he isn't as good as the four or five star guy.
Every saturday you see big time players line up against a hyped player and out perform him. There are ton's of clay mathews, Morris C., Blackmon's, toby gerhart's, Luke Kuechly's, R.G. III's, demarcus ware's, ect out there playing every saturday that wasn't on anyone's radar four years prior.
Just like the n.f.l. draft, someone forgot to tell J. Evans, M. colston, p. thomas, Ivory, Lance M, favre, brady, warner, t davis, r grant, james starks, g jennings, w welker, a bradshaw, victor cruz. ect. they aren't first round picks. no way they can produce where they were drafted.
At the end of the day, you want to get the best athletes you can get. The more you have the better you will be. this class doesn't have the "star" power.
It may not be a n.c. kind of class. however, if lsu does win a n.c. within the next four to five years, you can probably point to a number of this class members as being a important part. We had a great class last year, if we have a great one next year, you don't lose a beat.
The most important thing is to be great talent evaluation. This is something frank wilson was spot on at ole miss with kentrel locket, mike wallas, brandon bolden, ect. lsu's been spot on the last few years with t. mathieu, simon, claiborne, ken adams, mingo, hurst, blue, logan, williford, ect.
i think people are over reacting with l.c. and the kiel kid burned us with o.l. from florida. if kiel doesn't burn us, we have kid from florida and this thing doesn't seam as bad. we'll find a safety that can do the job. would like to have another qb and a d.t., other than that, no complaints.
Every saturday you see big time players line up against a hyped player and out perform him. There are ton's of clay mathews, Morris C., Blackmon's, toby gerhart's, Luke Kuechly's, R.G. III's, demarcus ware's, ect out there playing every saturday that wasn't on anyone's radar four years prior.
Just like the n.f.l. draft, someone forgot to tell J. Evans, M. colston, p. thomas, Ivory, Lance M, favre, brady, warner, t davis, r grant, james starks, g jennings, w welker, a bradshaw, victor cruz. ect. they aren't first round picks. no way they can produce where they were drafted.
At the end of the day, you want to get the best athletes you can get. The more you have the better you will be. this class doesn't have the "star" power.
It may not be a n.c. kind of class. however, if lsu does win a n.c. within the next four to five years, you can probably point to a number of this class members as being a important part. We had a great class last year, if we have a great one next year, you don't lose a beat.
The most important thing is to be great talent evaluation. This is something frank wilson was spot on at ole miss with kentrel locket, mike wallas, brandon bolden, ect. lsu's been spot on the last few years with t. mathieu, simon, claiborne, ken adams, mingo, hurst, blue, logan, williford, ect.
i think people are over reacting with l.c. and the kiel kid burned us with o.l. from florida. if kiel doesn't burn us, we have kid from florida and this thing doesn't seam as bad. we'll find a safety that can do the job. would like to have another qb and a d.t., other than that, no complaints.
6
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:26 pm to dos crystal
I remember reading a article about star rankings, and it was like
5 stars were suppose to be the guys who come in right away and start they are that good.
4 star might need some time to develop but should be really good. 3 stars will contribute when they are upperclassmen. and so on and so forth.
IDK if they got away from it or not, but it seems that having a 4 star sophomore ready to step up every 2 years is as good if not better than having a 5 star step up every 3-4
5 stars were suppose to be the guys who come in right away and start they are that good.
4 star might need some time to develop but should be really good. 3 stars will contribute when they are upperclassmen. and so on and so forth.
IDK if they got away from it or not, but it seems that having a 4 star sophomore ready to step up every 2 years is as good if not better than having a 5 star step up every 3-4
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:30 pm to dos crystal
is that it sucks when you aint none.
If LC, ME, TH, etc. were on board we'd be doing cartwheels (and rightly so)...now we got revisionism
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:31 pm to SammyTiger
quote:
The problem with "Star" rankings is
I remember reading a article about star rankings, and it was like
5 stars were suppose to be the guys who come in right away and start they are that good.
4 star might need some time to develop but should be really good. 3 stars will contribute when they are upperclassmen. and so on and so forth.
IDK if they got away from it or not, but it seems that having a 4 star sophomore ready to step up every 2 years is as good if not better than having a 5 star step up every 3-4
Yeah I saw it as well. Basically its people not understanding the star system. When someone is labeled a 3 star, it doesn't mean they aren't any good. It simply means that they aren't sure fire starters from day 1. 3 star players still project to be contributors at the highest level of college football, but people act as if a 3 star player isn't worth a shite.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:33 pm to willeteal
quote:
is that it sucks when you aint none.
If LC, ME, TH, etc. were on board we'd be doing cartwheels (and rightly so)...now we got revisionism
this
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:35 pm to willeteal
quote:
If LC, ME, TH, etc. were on board we'd be doing cartwheels
Well of course we would. But just because the players we are bringing in aren't projected to be super stars from day, doesn't mean we don't have a solid class. I think that's all he was getting at.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:41 pm to dos crystal
quote:
The problem with "Star" rankings is
we don't have enough of them this year. No one says this when we've loaded up on 5 star recruits in years past. Now, we've been getting our asses handed to us in recruiting all the sudden stars don't matter. Bottom line is that the recruiting services are correct more often than not.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:44 pm to UncleLogger
I feel like I need to write an essay on the star system.
People just react too strongly one way or the other, and it's absurd.
Of course, that's pretty much what everyone does on every subject on this board.
People just react too strongly one way or the other, and it's absurd.
Of course, that's pretty much what everyone does on every subject on this board.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:45 pm to SohCahToa
Did we want the 5 stars? sure. We really did. But we just want people to remember that Rivals has 89 people ahead of Eric Reid, and he is a baller.
Our best two DT last year were a four star and a 3 star, and they started over 2 guys their age who were both 5 stars one some sites.
OUr class is good, their ranking is not.
Our best two DT last year were a four star and a 3 star, and they started over 2 guys their age who were both 5 stars one some sites.
OUr class is good, their ranking is not.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:55 pm to dos crystal
Historically, the teams that have the highest rated recruiting classes have the winning and elite programs.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:55 pm to OBUDan
The bottom line is that this class doesn't have that last minute, last day STAR power. Most of our big guys have been commuted since last year.You look at the state of LA and our roster and we HAVE owned it for the past several years. So Collins wants to play at Alabama (badly it seems) it happens.
Everyone wants stars. Everyone wants that big guy who commits on signing day and gets everyone going WOOO HOOO and jumping around. It's what signing day has become.
Realistically we DO have good players in this class. Mostly on non skill positions.
Signing day and stars and all that is what it is. At the end of the day, when all is said and done I am very confident LSU will be just fine fellas.
Everyone wants stars. Everyone wants that big guy who commits on signing day and gets everyone going WOOO HOOO and jumping around. It's what signing day has become.
Realistically we DO have good players in this class. Mostly on non skill positions.
Signing day and stars and all that is what it is. At the end of the day, when all is said and done I am very confident LSU will be just fine fellas.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 2:58 pm to filmmaker45
Another thing...
It's not like this staff has forgotten how to recruit. It's not like they still don't sell the same pitch they gave to your guys like Big Sam, Peterson, or Randle. It's not like we don't have the facilities, and it's not like we don't have the winning culture.
It's just not a big time star year for us this year. It feels worse because of the loss in the title game. I'm sure had we won it, and still looking at the class we look at today, we'd be saying "Oh well, our coaches know how to develop players!"
It's not like this staff has forgotten how to recruit. It's not like they still don't sell the same pitch they gave to your guys like Big Sam, Peterson, or Randle. It's not like we don't have the facilities, and it's not like we don't have the winning culture.
It's just not a big time star year for us this year. It feels worse because of the loss in the title game. I'm sure had we won it, and still looking at the class we look at today, we'd be saying "Oh well, our coaches know how to develop players!"
Posted on 1/24/12 at 3:06 pm to UncleLogger
quote:
Bottom line is that the recruiting services are correct more often than not.
i don't think you are correct. you look at a kid like brockers, or a dorsey for that matter. They were four star kids. pretty good rating. however, they weren't first at their position. yet, they are leaving first at their position.
same with t. mathieu, winded up being a four star guy. however, he wasn't even thought about being the best secondary player in the country. And yet he is.
demarcus ware, darrel tapp, osi u., jason p. paul, t owens, brandon marshal, t brady, b favre, k warner, j rice, ect. and i could go on and on.
it's not that they hit on a lot of players as far as getting a decent star for their talent. They miss BADLY when it comes to how they rank at their position.
i'll go with Ron Feist in this class. They think he doesn't have a position, therefore, drop his rating. If chavis figures out how to use his talent at lb or de (like he did with t.m. as a nickle and brockers as a d.t.) and he becomes an impact player, then they look stupid.
this doesn't just pertain to lsu. Nebraska, for years, never had highly ranked classes but was the best at talent evaluation and the most dominant program in the country. Auburn, under tubberville was consistantly a top 20 class but rarely top 10, however, he put as many in the pros as anyone. VTech, Boise, Wisconsin, Oregon, come to mind as programs that are consistantly in the top 10 on the field but not in recruiting. Yet texas is top five every year, florida has been, and they are struggling.
am i saying this a n.c. class, probably not. however, it's not as bad as people make it out, either. i've just been around to long and followed this crap to long to get excited over a woods, davenport, r.s., toliver, ect. only to see kids like brockers, logan, obj, morris c., ect make much larger impacts.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 3:11 pm to dos crystal
quote:
you look at a kid like brockers, or a dorsey for that matter.
Brockers was a fringe top 100 player.
Dorsey was a 5-star on scout.
And trying to accuse the recruiting sites of being wrong for labeling these guys "4 stars" is a stretch.
Talent evaluation is subject to human error. When you are evaluating other humans, it's difficult, because any number of factors go into it: what type of situation will they go into? will they be focused? will they grow? will they mature? will they work hard? will they take to coaching? are they tough? are they good students?
quote:
i've just been around to long and followed this crap to long to get excited over a woods, davenport, r.s., toliver, ect. only to see kids like brockers, logan, obj, morris c., ect make much larger impacts.
Well, I've been around long enough to get excited over Patrick Peterson, Rueben Randle, and Jamarcus Russell while Derrick Bryant, Jhrynn Taylor and Chris Garrett make much smaller impacts.
It goes both ways.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 3:18 pm to dos crystal
The fact is, hundreds of thousands of guys play college football. Of course there will be a random Big Ben that goes unnoticed as a recruit, latches on at a small school and turns into a great NFL player. That's sheer probability.
Of course there will be 5-star busts, just like there will be 1st round draft busts. Of course there will be more 2 star players in the NFL draft, because there are more 2 star players period.
There's 7 rounds of the NFL draft. 32 teams. That's 224 players selected a year. It's more just probability IMO.
Of all the teams you mentioned only NEbraska won a National Title, and that team hasn't been the same since a vastly more talented Miami destroyed their option offense in 2001.
Of course there will be 5-star busts, just like there will be 1st round draft busts. Of course there will be more 2 star players in the NFL draft, because there are more 2 star players period.
There's 7 rounds of the NFL draft. 32 teams. That's 224 players selected a year. It's more just probability IMO.
Of all the teams you mentioned only NEbraska won a National Title, and that team hasn't been the same since a vastly more talented Miami destroyed their option offense in 2001.
This post was edited on 1/24/12 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 1/24/12 at 3:39 pm to dos crystal
You take all 2 stars, give me the 5 stars. You'll get blown off the field. Guys make it every year from Podunk U. That doesn't mean their teams could stay on the field with LSU. You need top talent to compete for national titles.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 3:40 pm to JJ27
Any coach will tell you, it's not x's and o's, it's jimmy's and joe's...
Posted on 1/24/12 at 4:01 pm to OBUDan
[quote]Any coach will tell you, it's not x's and o's, it's jimmy's and joe's...[/quote
That's exatly right. I think people miss my point. this class alone isn't going to win or lose you a n.c. People are acting like it's horrible. There are very good players in it.
we had a great class last year and the year before. Those classes were rated out of the top five. (i don't think those two classes were rated accurately i'd put them as miles two best classes when all said and done)
If you come back next year and get another great class. I think you find this class suplements the one prior and bridges the one after. Just because you don't get l.c. or g.k. in this class doesn't mean ronald martin, sandolph or whomever we sign at safety and qb this year or next can't fill that need and we keep on trucking.
at the end of the day it's two positions. nothing to really sweat. I would have rathered secure a good d.t. over a safety. i just value that position more.
That's exatly right. I think people miss my point. this class alone isn't going to win or lose you a n.c. People are acting like it's horrible. There are very good players in it.
we had a great class last year and the year before. Those classes were rated out of the top five. (i don't think those two classes were rated accurately i'd put them as miles two best classes when all said and done)
If you come back next year and get another great class. I think you find this class suplements the one prior and bridges the one after. Just because you don't get l.c. or g.k. in this class doesn't mean ronald martin, sandolph or whomever we sign at safety and qb this year or next can't fill that need and we keep on trucking.
at the end of the day it's two positions. nothing to really sweat. I would have rathered secure a good d.t. over a safety. i just value that position more.
This post was edited on 1/24/12 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 1/24/12 at 4:40 pm to JJ27
TU recruits the 2 star and gets an occasional 3 star.
Posted on 1/24/12 at 4:54 pm to dos crystal
I understand. It's definitely not an "OMG WORST CLASS EVAR!!!!" type of thing.
It's a good, solid class. There's nothing wrong with that.
We just need to come back next year with another great one.
It's a good, solid class. There's nothing wrong with that.
We just need to come back next year with another great one.
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