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Message
Toliver to Miles: Thanks, bud...or not?
Posted on 5/1/11 at 7:51 am
Posted on 5/1/11 at 7:51 am
Of course, there is some blame on Toliver also, as his hands and route running up until his Sr year took too long to take shape.
However, his Sr year provided ample evidence of his skills, and that should have outweighed his early career downside.
So, weighing mostly Toliver's Sr year as your basis, where does the blame lie for Toliver not even getting drafted. (crazy for a 5 star HS guy who stays 4 years and starts as a Sr on a high profile team, and actually shows a lot of Pro potential)
A) 0% Miles 100% Toliver
B) 20% Miles 80% Toliver
C) 40% Miles 60% Toliver
D) 60% Miles 40% Toliver
E) 80% Miles 20% Toliver
F) 100% Miles 0% Toliver
note: talking here about his development at LSU, as that precedes the combine. I agree the combine is a large factor in this also, but everything that leads up to the combine and the draft is what I am asking about.
Was it mostly Miles fault for mis managing the most important position on the team (QB), or mostly Toliver's fault for developing too slowly?
However, his Sr year provided ample evidence of his skills, and that should have outweighed his early career downside.
So, weighing mostly Toliver's Sr year as your basis, where does the blame lie for Toliver not even getting drafted. (crazy for a 5 star HS guy who stays 4 years and starts as a Sr on a high profile team, and actually shows a lot of Pro potential)
A) 0% Miles 100% Toliver
B) 20% Miles 80% Toliver
C) 40% Miles 60% Toliver
D) 60% Miles 40% Toliver
E) 80% Miles 20% Toliver
F) 100% Miles 0% Toliver
note: talking here about his development at LSU, as that precedes the combine. I agree the combine is a large factor in this also, but everything that leads up to the combine and the draft is what I am asking about.
Was it mostly Miles fault for mis managing the most important position on the team (QB), or mostly Toliver's fault for developing too slowly?
This post was edited on 5/1/11 at 7:59 am
25
Posted on 5/1/11 at 7:54 am to therocketscientist
Ask the same question about PP7.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 7:54 am to therocketscientist
quote:
where does the blame lie for Toliver not even getting drafted.
his performance at the combine.
that's it. it has nothing to do with his career at lsu.
you can take that to the bank. that's why they have the combine.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 7:55 am to therocketscientist
A
If you have the talent and give the effort scouts notice and draft accordingly.
If you have the talent and give the effort scouts notice and draft accordingly.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:11 am to therocketscientist
can you manage the qbs?
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:11 am to therocketscientist
quote:So tell me this...How did LaFell achieve good production with the same QB, but Toliver couldn't?
therocketscientist
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:19 am to therocketscientist
quote:You really need a new screen name.
therocketscientist
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:26 am to coolpapaboze
I think the pros could see what I have said about him since the first season he was at LSU. Poor routes, runs the incorrect routes - caused several interceptions blamed on the QB, and lined up incorrectly more times than most everyone else. And dropped too many passes. Simply not good enough for the pros. 100% Toliver.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:31 am to mikelsu15
quote:
Ask the same question about PP7.
PP7 would have been the 5th overall pick if he'd played for UT Chattanooga.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:31 am to mikelsu15
quote:
Ask the same question about PP7.
PP7 would have been the 5th overall pick if he'd played for UT Chattanooga.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:33 am to geauxaddai
quote:You can say that again!
PP7 would have been the 5th overall pick if he'd played for UT Chattanooga.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:34 am to geauxaddai
quote:
PP7 would have been the 5th overall pick if he'd played for UT Chattanooga.
PP7 would have been the first pick of the draft if JJ wasn't the LSU QB.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:38 am to geauxaddai
quote:
PP7 would have been the 5th overall pick if he'd played for UT Chattanooga.
and Tolliver wouldn't have been drafted even if he played for LSU.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:46 am to therocketscientist
JJ supporters will point out that Lafell was a good pick up because of productivity. The fact is TT had as good a Jr year as Lafell had senior. Additionally, BF was shut out against UGA, FLA and Bama TD wise that year. Both had 700+ yds receiving 50+ catches.
Each year of BFs career, LSU had a good third option at receiver. That could include the TE, dickson, and others such as Byrd and Doucet and TT.
Last season, LSU had NO option as a third and very little at 2. RS and RR have not lived up to their billing either. TT was the most productive receiver on a team that ran the ball ALOT and had two other weak arse options with a injured tight end for most of the year.
Production dropped off IMO because the TE position was not an option most of the year.
With that said, most of this is on TT. I would say about 30% on the ineptitude on offense.
Each year of BFs career, LSU had a good third option at receiver. That could include the TE, dickson, and others such as Byrd and Doucet and TT.
Last season, LSU had NO option as a third and very little at 2. RS and RR have not lived up to their billing either. TT was the most productive receiver on a team that ran the ball ALOT and had two other weak arse options with a injured tight end for most of the year.
Production dropped off IMO because the TE position was not an option most of the year.
With that said, most of this is on TT. I would say about 30% on the ineptitude on offense.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:49 am to PPeterson1
quote:
quote: therocketscientist So tell me this...How did LaFell achieve good production with the same QB, but Toliver couldn't?
Boom. TT80 made his own bed by his work ethic, off the field behavior, and underachievement.
Les does just fine developing players. 5 players drafted in the top 3 rounds this year, 5 drafted in top 6 overall in last 5 years, and maintains a top overall number of players in the NFL. Based on the talent level of the 2011, the trend will not stop.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:59 am to therocketscientist
Dont quit your day job...ROCKETSCIENTIST you're not...
Posted on 5/1/11 at 8:59 am to jdg91878
quote:
Boom. TT80 made his own bed by his work ethic, off the field behavior, and underachievement.
I keep hearing this little gem from overly defensive faithful of the save the Leslie Bear brigade, and I have to say I am more than a little puzzled. TT was a good representative for the school, always articulate in front of the press, and didn't pout when the ball wasn't thrown his way. If it weren't for him, we would not have won against Bama or Florida last year.
Off the field, apart from the one incident he has been a model citizen. He has been honest about his dropsies, never once fought with the coaches like Byrd. So riddle me this, as you stop cupping Miles balls for a second...what exactly did he do to incur your wrath???
Can you provide a link to substantiate any of your brilliant claims? I know TT didn't get drafted, I just don't like people getting on him in this fashion. he was a good kid and his dreams got completely dashed - in no small part because we did NOT have a QB the whole time he was here.
This post was edited on 5/1/11 at 9:03 am
Posted on 5/1/11 at 9:04 am to jdg91878
quote:This is debatable. we had players that should have went before they were picked and therefore lost a lot of $$. Ridley did make out very good according to the talking heads, but I believed he was drafted where he should have been.
Les does just fine developing players. 5 players drafted in the top 3 rounds this year, 5
We will see how well these guys play at the next level and how soon before we say they are "NFL Ready".
Posted on 5/1/11 at 9:09 am to geauxaddai
quote:
I keep hearing this little gem from overly defensive faithful of the save the Leslie Bear brigade, and I have to say I am more than a little puzzled. TT was a good representative for the school, always articulate in front of the press, and didn't pout when the ball wasn't thrown his way. If it weren't for him, we would not have won against Bama or Florida last year.
Off the field, apart from the one incident he has been a model citizen. He has been honest about his dropsies, never once fought with the coaches like Byrd. So riddle me this, as you stop cupping Miles balls for a second...what exactly did he do to incur your wrath???
Can you provide a link to substantiate any of your brilliant claims? I know TT didn't get drafted, I just don't like people getting on him in this fashion. he was a good kid and his dreams got completely dashed - in no small part because we did NOT have a QB the whole time he was here.
Well said. They won't have an answer. See my post about productivity and not having a 3rd or 4th option at receiver AND our O SUCKED arse!
Les FIRED his NC winning OC 3 years later because of this. AND ALLEDGELY he was instrumental in winning 10 games last year! GC was SO bad at every job he never lasted more that a few years. He is NO WIZARD!
They all have their HEADS UP THEIR ASSES!
NONE understand business and the fact that CLM would have been looking for a job if we suffered on O again next year even after winning 10 games last season.
Posted on 5/1/11 at 9:15 am to Jaketigger
I love when fools start agreeing. Pat on the back, sir, pat on the back.
You guys are insulting the intelligence of every scout andcoach in the NFL. They can see who is throwing the ball to TT. They review film for a good living. You do not. TT just wasn't what they're looking for. That's not Les Miles' fault.
You guys are insulting the intelligence of every scout andcoach in the NFL. They can see who is throwing the ball to TT. They review film for a good living. You do not. TT just wasn't what they're looking for. That's not Les Miles' fault.
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