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Question about LLC and insurance
Posted on 4/4/11 at 11:35 am
Posted on 4/4/11 at 11:35 am
I am in an LLC with 4 other partners and in the LLC we have a fishing camp. That is the only asset in the LLC. We are looking at liability insurance for the camp in the event one of our guest ever gets hurts or whatnot. The insurance quotes are pretty high and a few members dont want to pay the high premium.
My question is....Do we still have some sort of protection since it's in an LLC even without P&I? Should take the risk and not get insurance or is this a no brainier and if we want to play, we have to pay.
I'm waiting on my attorney to call me back to advise me, but I wanted to hear what some of you had to say and maybe give me some points to bring up to my partners and my attorney.
My question is....Do we still have some sort of protection since it's in an LLC even without P&I? Should take the risk and not get insurance or is this a no brainier and if we want to play, we have to pay.
I'm waiting on my attorney to call me back to advise me, but I wanted to hear what some of you had to say and maybe give me some points to bring up to my partners and my attorney.
2
Posted on 4/4/11 at 11:49 am to tgrbaitn08
quote:
The insurance quotes are pretty high
what type of numbers you talking about?
Posted on 4/4/11 at 11:59 am to Chad504boy
quote:
what type of numbers you talking about?
$4000/year for P&I
Posted on 4/4/11 at 12:44 pm to tgrbaitn08
I'm an E&S insurance broker and I write a lot of camps. That seems pretty high.
How big is your camp (acres)? Is it just the 10 of you? What kind of hunting do you do?
Who is your agent (if you don't mind me asking)?
Also are you doing a lot of boating?
How big is your camp (acres)? Is it just the 10 of you? What kind of hunting do you do?
Who is your agent (if you don't mind me asking)?
Also are you doing a lot of boating?
This post was edited on 4/4/11 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 4/4/11 at 12:51 pm to mule74
quote:
How big is your camp (acres)? Is it just the 10 of you? What kind of hunting do you do?
It's a floating camp with no engine.....steel barge and steel housing. There are 5 of us.
Posted on 4/4/11 at 12:56 pm to tgrbaitn08
quote:
It's a floating camp
That's the rub. I couldn't understand why you needed P&I, but now I get it.
That's a pretty tough exposure.
One of the problems with LA is that insurers look at the overall litigous nature of the state. Chances are a lot of your guests wouldn't sue even if they got hurt, but the acutaries never look at it that way.
I would definitely get coverage though. It always seems expensive until you need it.
Posted on 4/4/11 at 3:17 pm to tgrbaitn08
The LLC should limit the members' exposure to the assets of the LLC. However, if one, or more, of the members are managers of the LLC, and they are deterined to have been negligent in preventing an accident, then they may held liable for any damages in excess of the assets owned by the LLC.
If you can't convince the LLC members to buy an insurance policy for the camp see how much it would cost to get an umbrella policy that would cover you.
If you can't convince the LLC members to buy an insurance policy for the camp see how much it would cost to get an umbrella policy that would cover you.
Posted on 4/4/11 at 7:09 pm to Poodlebrain
There may be some coverage for the LLC under the General Liability policy if the fishing camp exposure is incidental to your business operations. Check the exclusions and who is an insured sections in your General Liability policy very carefully.
Louisiana is a litigious state and a significant exposure to the LLC may be alcohol consumption at the camp which could lead to the injury/death of a visitor. If you have deep pockets and a big risk appetite you can assume the risk and pass on insurance. If not, you should consider primary and excess P&I limits. If the camp is permanently docked, a Port Risk policy might be an option and available at a lower cost.
Louisiana is a litigious state and a significant exposure to the LLC may be alcohol consumption at the camp which could lead to the injury/death of a visitor. If you have deep pockets and a big risk appetite you can assume the risk and pass on insurance. If not, you should consider primary and excess P&I limits. If the camp is permanently docked, a Port Risk policy might be an option and available at a lower cost.
Posted on 4/5/11 at 4:06 am to baileysma
I believe by y'all being a LLC, if someone were to sue, they can only go after the assets in the LLC and none of your personal assets outside the LLC. I guess worse case senario is y'all lose the camp.
Posted on 4/5/11 at 8:49 am to baileysma
The Commercial General Liability will have an exclusion for watercraft. Without coverage for the floating camp, the LLC would have no coverage.
You need to purchase the Protection & Indemnity Policy and probably consider a Bumbershoot or Umbrella Policy over it.
You need to purchase the Protection & Indemnity Policy and probably consider a Bumbershoot or Umbrella Policy over it.
Posted on 4/5/11 at 8:50 am to mule74
Mule74
Who do you work for?
I was a Commercial Lines Insurance Broker for many years.
Who do you work for?
I was a Commercial Lines Insurance Broker for many years.
Posted on 4/5/11 at 1:48 pm to guttata
quote:
I believe by y'all being a LLC, if someone were to sue, they can only go after the assets in the LLC and none of your personal assets outside the LLC. I guess worse case senario is y'all lose the camp.
That is the $10,000,000 question...and if that is the case then we wont get the P&I, I just want to make sure they cant come after me personally
Posted on 4/5/11 at 2:59 pm to tgrbaitn08
the law school case goes like this: owner-operator taxi cab driver in NYC forms LLC, has no insurance, causes accident, is sued, tries to hide behind LLC, court "pierces the veil" of the llc and driver is personally reponsible; moral of story is that you must have insurance adequate under the circumstances or your llc's veil will be pierced. Now the question is, what is adequate under your circumstances? If it is not being carried on for business purposes, then no insurance might adequate. If you are taking clients/customers out there, then full coverage might be needed. At the very least, find out what the surrounding camps in the area have and get that and you should be covered.
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