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Message
The spread is not for everyone
Posted on 1/15/11 at 4:40 pm
Posted on 1/15/11 at 4:40 pm
I once heard an explanation of what the spread was and why it was utilized by offenses. I remember hearing that it was used by teams who were at a severe physical disadvantage compared to their opponent.
I always wondered why in the world we (LSU) were implementing this scheme, being we are one of the most athletic and physical teams in the country. We have the studs to dominate at the point of attack, so why not play more smash mouth football and give up on the BS that every body else is doing?
I'm not saying we take it out totally, obviously having more sets for the defense to have to defend is an advantage. But we need to go back to our bread and butter, which is a physical running game. Look at our talent at RB, just that alone should dictate what style of offense to run.
I found this small tidbit about the spread online and I will try to find a better explanation of the spread being invented for physically outmatched offenses and post it. "The father of the spread offense is Rusty Russell, a graduate of Howard Payne University, in Brownwood, Texas, and coach of Fort Worth's Masonic Home and School for orphaned boys. Russell began coaching Masonic Home in 1927, and due to the fact that his teams were often over matched physically by other schools, they were called the "Mighty Mites". While there, he deployed the earliest form of a spread offense to great success."
With both Auburn and Oregon using it to propel themselves to the BCSCG, I'm guessing its not going anywhere for some time to come. Has anyone else heard about this reason for the spread being utilized?
I always wondered why in the world we (LSU) were implementing this scheme, being we are one of the most athletic and physical teams in the country. We have the studs to dominate at the point of attack, so why not play more smash mouth football and give up on the BS that every body else is doing?
I'm not saying we take it out totally, obviously having more sets for the defense to have to defend is an advantage. But we need to go back to our bread and butter, which is a physical running game. Look at our talent at RB, just that alone should dictate what style of offense to run.
I found this small tidbit about the spread online and I will try to find a better explanation of the spread being invented for physically outmatched offenses and post it. "The father of the spread offense is Rusty Russell, a graduate of Howard Payne University, in Brownwood, Texas, and coach of Fort Worth's Masonic Home and School for orphaned boys. Russell began coaching Masonic Home in 1927, and due to the fact that his teams were often over matched physically by other schools, they were called the "Mighty Mites". While there, he deployed the earliest form of a spread offense to great success."
With both Auburn and Oregon using it to propel themselves to the BCSCG, I'm guessing its not going anywhere for some time to come. Has anyone else heard about this reason for the spread being utilized?
This post was edited on 1/15/11 at 5:12 pm
10
Posted on 1/15/11 at 4:49 pm to szeringue
quote:
1927
Back then if you were strong you were slow, and if you were fast you were small.
Now people are big and fast. That is why the spread is still in use by physical teams.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 5:11 pm to szeringue
Actually the spred O is set up to horizontally spread out the field and set up 1-on-1 match-ups to find ones that you can exploit. If you have lots of stud athletes this still works.
The reason it did not work at LSU is that LSU didn't have a QB that matched what they wanted to do on O.
With the types of RBs that come out of La, I would love to see what LSU could do with a spread rushing attack.
The reason it did not work at LSU is that LSU didn't have a QB that matched what they wanted to do on O.
With the types of RBs that come out of La, I would love to see what LSU could do with a spread rushing attack.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 5:12 pm to szeringue
Paragraphs are not for everyone either
Posted on 1/15/11 at 5:14 pm to Lester Earl
Posted on 1/15/11 at 5:16 pm to Lester Earl
I agree with the spread utilization due to being mismatched physically.
Prime example, I grew up in west texas. Look at Tech a few years ago when Mike Leach was coaching. That wide arse open offense he ran allowed Tech to compete with UT and other Big12 schools and even win a few of them.
Have you ever been to Lubbock? Its not exactly a place an out of state 5 star recruit would want to spend the next 3-4 years with ambitions of going pro. They dont get the 5 star kids unless they grow up in the area and dont want to leave home.
I also agree that it would work at LSU, but I dont think its necessary...we have the athletes to go head to head with anyone.
Prime example, I grew up in west texas. Look at Tech a few years ago when Mike Leach was coaching. That wide arse open offense he ran allowed Tech to compete with UT and other Big12 schools and even win a few of them.
Have you ever been to Lubbock? Its not exactly a place an out of state 5 star recruit would want to spend the next 3-4 years with ambitions of going pro. They dont get the 5 star kids unless they grow up in the area and dont want to leave home.
I also agree that it would work at LSU, but I dont think its necessary...we have the athletes to go head to head with anyone.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 5:18 pm to s_i5
Posted on 1/15/11 at 5:25 pm to szeringue
Our O line needs to step up before this thread makes sense (better in 2010, putrid in 09 and 08)
Posted on 1/15/11 at 5:27 pm to s_i5
I think now is the optimum time to return to a pro style offense for teams like LSU that can "out-athlete" most every team they play. More and more teams are going with smaller quicker players on defense to combat the spread (including LSU). This sets up perfectly for a smash mouth team to come in and take advantage.
A perfect example was the Texas A&M game and their star linebacker Von Miller. Against spread teams, and teams that are passing a lot, Miller is a beast, nearly unblockable. However, he is a smallish end/linebacker and when forced to hold his ground against big linemen and fullbacks pounding right at him, he was woefully overmatched.
I think this is going to borne out again in our season opener against Oregon in Sept. Oregon is a spread team and was able to hold AU in check in part because they are built to defend the spread as well. Against a team like LSU or Bama, that really just want to pound it right at you and let their superior athletes just come downhill at you, their smallish front will have their tongues hanging out by the forth quarter.
A perfect example was the Texas A&M game and their star linebacker Von Miller. Against spread teams, and teams that are passing a lot, Miller is a beast, nearly unblockable. However, he is a smallish end/linebacker and when forced to hold his ground against big linemen and fullbacks pounding right at him, he was woefully overmatched.
I think this is going to borne out again in our season opener against Oregon in Sept. Oregon is a spread team and was able to hold AU in check in part because they are built to defend the spread as well. Against a team like LSU or Bama, that really just want to pound it right at you and let their superior athletes just come downhill at you, their smallish front will have their tongues hanging out by the forth quarter.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 5:52 pm to szeringue
The Spread is a formation...not an offense.
An offense is a collection of base plays & constraint plays grouped around central concepts in order to exploit certain coverages, fronts, &/or down & distance situations.
A formation is a way of grouping individuals to accentuate or take advantage of certain match-ups.
Auburn under Malzahn & Texas Tech under Leach both base out of a spread formation but are fundamentally different in terms of their offense (i.e. the base plays philosophy & play-calling philosophy.)
Malzahn's offense at Auburn, for example, is a power running offense using misdirection concepts heavy influenced by the Delaware Wing T, specifically the Buck Series.
Texas Tech's offense under Leach relied heavily on the Airraid philosophy of using pre-snap reads, audibles, & short timed passed in an effort to get play makers in space to get yards after the catch.
Bobby Petrino's offense at Arkansas is a perfect example of the type of offense that I think would work best at LSU. Multiple formation, including Spread, Ace, Trips, I..., power running game combined with a great passing game.
AJ
An offense is a collection of base plays & constraint plays grouped around central concepts in order to exploit certain coverages, fronts, &/or down & distance situations.
A formation is a way of grouping individuals to accentuate or take advantage of certain match-ups.
Auburn under Malzahn & Texas Tech under Leach both base out of a spread formation but are fundamentally different in terms of their offense (i.e. the base plays philosophy & play-calling philosophy.)
Malzahn's offense at Auburn, for example, is a power running offense using misdirection concepts heavy influenced by the Delaware Wing T, specifically the Buck Series.
Texas Tech's offense under Leach relied heavily on the Airraid philosophy of using pre-snap reads, audibles, & short timed passed in an effort to get play makers in space to get yards after the catch.
Bobby Petrino's offense at Arkansas is a perfect example of the type of offense that I think would work best at LSU. Multiple formation, including Spread, Ace, Trips, I..., power running game combined with a great passing game.
AJ
Posted on 1/15/11 at 6:08 pm to szeringue
quote:
I once heard an explanation of what the spread was and why it was utilized by offenses. I remember hearing that it was used by teams who were at a severe physical disadvantage compared to their opponent.
Well, even if you can out-physical other teams, it's even better if you can deceive them and push them around. Because you will not be able to out-physical every team all of the time. And, in fact, if you can out-physical most of your opponents, you usually become dumb, thinking that you can do it even when the other team is loading the box.
Such is the LSU offense 2008-2010.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 6:51 pm to StLCajun55
Great info. So running attack spread is optimal with a Qb that can distribute the ball.
Let's say both Mett and then Rivers both live up to the hype, is one better than the other for this style? Or can any QB work with this style?
Is not having mobility a problem? Maybe not since Mallet was a statue. But then again Dalton could tuck it and run.
Let's say both Mett and then Rivers both live up to the hype, is one better than the other for this style? Or can any QB work with this style?
Is not having mobility a problem? Maybe not since Mallet was a statue. But then again Dalton could tuck it and run.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 6:55 pm to szeringue
quote:
We have the studs to dominate at the point of attack, so why not play more smash mouth football and give up on the BS that every body else is doing?
LSU could not run on Bama last year. They had some huge guy in the middle.
LSU has had trouble running on short yardage since Hester left.
I know that Ridley was pretty good a lot of the time, and sometimes teams stopped LSU cold.
At that point OC Crowton went to the air.
If Oregon had gone to the air vs Aubie, maybe they dont leave the ball on the 1 in four tries.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 7:12 pm to ottothewise
quote:
f Oregon had gone to the air vs Aubie
They threw the ball 41 times vs 32 rushes.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 7:43 pm to moneyg
56% off the time then, not terribly out of kilter for them.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 7:59 pm to szeringue
save yourself some air and some err by simply looking up the spread on wikipedia. it gives a thourough explanation and explains that there is no such thing as "the spread". there are lots of modification and "semi-spread" things going on. you are not alone, i see lots of discussions about the spread where its obvious a little research would help you greatly.
Posted on 1/15/11 at 8:05 pm to LSU GrandDad
I will admit right up front I am at the very beginning of learning about offensive strategy. With that said, it seems to me the biggest misunderstandings are that a spread offense can not use a power running game, and the confusion of spread and spread option.
I have been reading the link OBUdan provided in the sticky thread for smart football like they are going to delete it though. That guy gives some really good breakdowns of schemes.
Should be required reading to post on here lol.
I have been reading the link OBUdan provided in the sticky thread for smart football like they are going to delete it though. That guy gives some really good breakdowns of schemes.
Should be required reading to post on here lol.
Posted on 1/16/11 at 1:04 pm to LSU GrandDad
I have been on this site for a short time now and I thoroughly enjoy it. But it seems a small minority here just love to point out fault in others and give nothing positive to the discussion. Also I have done a few things wrong since I am here and have learned from my mistakes. Like posting in the wrong forum and such.
Let me tell you something Granddad, I am on this forum to communicate and share views and also to learn. I started this thread in order to ask if anyone else shared the view of the spread being a non conventional style of offense that physical teams could do without.
It seems like you think we all should research on the internet about things before we ever want to post and begin a conversation about a subject. Well I disagree. I feel I can post and then share ideas and knowledge with other fellow posters to learn what can be learned.
So your idea of wasted "air" and "err" makes absolutely no sense to me. I appall the idea that I need to "look it upon the internet" before wasting time on this forum.
To me the wasted air was actually your post because you gave nothing substantive to our conversation whatsoever.
Now one thing I am learning is when to start a thread and when to join a thread. Being I am new I'll admit, I have started threads while other similar threads were ongoing. But who hasn't done that? Looks like you didn't have a problem with that concerning me. Your "save yourself some air and err" remark was pertaining to looking it up on Wikipedia. Save your air and never post a reply to any of my posts again including this one. Thank You
Let me tell you something Granddad, I am on this forum to communicate and share views and also to learn. I started this thread in order to ask if anyone else shared the view of the spread being a non conventional style of offense that physical teams could do without.
It seems like you think we all should research on the internet about things before we ever want to post and begin a conversation about a subject. Well I disagree. I feel I can post and then share ideas and knowledge with other fellow posters to learn what can be learned.
So your idea of wasted "air" and "err" makes absolutely no sense to me. I appall the idea that I need to "look it upon the internet" before wasting time on this forum.
To me the wasted air was actually your post because you gave nothing substantive to our conversation whatsoever.
Now one thing I am learning is when to start a thread and when to join a thread. Being I am new I'll admit, I have started threads while other similar threads were ongoing. But who hasn't done that? Looks like you didn't have a problem with that concerning me. Your "save yourself some air and err" remark was pertaining to looking it up on Wikipedia. Save your air and never post a reply to any of my posts again including this one. Thank You
Posted on 1/16/11 at 1:06 pm to szeringue
Posted on 1/16/11 at 3:04 pm to szeringue
quote:
I once heard an explanation of what the spread was and why it was utilized by offenses. I remember hearing that it was used by teams who were at a severe physical disadvantage compared to their opponent.
I always wondered why in the world we (LSU) were implementing this scheme, being we are one of the most athletic and physical teams in the country. We have the studs to dominate at the point of attack, so why not play more smash mouth football and give up on the BS that every body else is doing?
I'm not saying we take it out totally, obviously having more sets for the defense to have to defend is an advantage. But we need to go back to our bread and butter, which is a physical running game. Look at our talent at RB, just that alone should dictate what style of offense to run.
I found this small tidbit about the spread online and I will try to find a better explanation of the spread being invented for physically outmatched offenses and post it. "The father of the spread offense is Rusty Russell, a graduate of Howard Payne University, in Brownwood, Texas, and coach of Fort Worth's Masonic Home and School for orphaned boys. Russell began coaching Masonic Home in 1927, and due to the fact that his teams were often over matched physically by other schools, they were called the "Mighty Mites". While there, he deployed the earliest form of a spread offense to great success."
With both Auburn and Oregon using it to propel themselves to the BCSCG, I'm guessing its not going anywhere for some time to come. Has anyone else heard about this reason for the spread being utilized?
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