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Which markets stink that will eventually rise?

Posted on 1/7/10 at 3:32 pm
Posted by mytigger
Member since Jan 2008
15341 posts
Posted on 1/7/10 at 3:32 pm
This will answer all my stock purchasing questions. Thanks in advance for making me a millionaire.
Posted by RollTide4Ever
Nashville
Member since Nov 2006
19816 posts
Posted on 1/7/10 at 5:30 pm to
Oil is safe play long-term.

////take my advice at your risk.
Posted by calminvestor
USA
Member since Dec 2009
31 posts
Posted on 1/8/10 at 8:30 pm to
Answer: A quick 150 page read - "The Smartest Investment Book You'll Ever Read". Please read this before continuing to try to blindly guess at winners and losers. If you do this, you can thank me when you are an old man with money. Stop guessing and PLEASE stop watching the "Financial Pornography" on CNBC, Wall Street Journal, etc,etc,etc....
Posted by mytigger
Member since Jan 2008
15341 posts
Posted on 1/8/10 at 8:49 pm to
give me the cliff notes please
Posted by calminvestor
USA
Member since Dec 2009
31 posts
Posted on 1/8/10 at 9:39 pm to
A 150 page read is the equivalent of "Cliff's Notes", however, I'll be nice and try to sum it up.

Major Points of the Book:

No one has "beaten the market" (Actively managed funds) over the long term. What does that mean to you? Why try to beat the market? Why not "be the market" (Passively managed funds)? It's returned 11.8% historically. Invest in Index Funds. Index funds simply "track a given index". Boring right? Wrong. If boring means making higher returns, then let my investments be boring as hell! Why index funds? Higher returns and lower expenses. Average "Actively managed mutual funds" charge 1.5% expense ratios as compared to the Average "Passively managed funds" which charged around .2%. What's that mean for you?
Example: $1,000,000 invested in an Active fund costs you $15K per year (Actively managed funds).
In comparison, my same $1,000,000 costs me a mere $2,000 per year (Passively manged funds). That's $13,000 less that I pay for funds that WILL outperform your "Professionally managed/Actively managed funds". I'm sure you can take a wild guess at what that extra $13,000 per year would grow to over 30 years @ 11.8%, right?

90% of your returns are predicated on Asset Allocation. Don't ever forget this...

If you choose low-cost index funds with a company like Vanguard like I do. You only need, for instance, 3 of these low-cost index funds to make up your entire Roth IRA portfolio - sample portfolio below.

Determine your Risk Profile. It's simply your "sleep factor". Need to read the book for specific help with this part (it's important).

Here are the funds for a High Risk Portfolio with their associated Asset Allocations. You could hold these 3 funds in a Roth IRA at Vanguard (I have no financial incentive to tell you this, whatsoever).

VTSMX - 56%
VGTSX - 24%
VBMFX - 20%

Here's a link so you can compare the 3. Take note of expense ratios, then go back and compare them with Actively managed funds. You'll see.

I tried to keep it brief, but the book is full of stellar information that really needs to be thoroughly read to gain a complete understanding.
Hope this helps.
Posted by calminvestor
USA
Member since Dec 2009
31 posts
Posted on 1/8/10 at 9:50 pm to
sorry, here's the link

LINK
Posted by mytigger
Member since Jan 2008
15341 posts
Posted on 1/8/10 at 10:21 pm to
Thanks for the summary. And FWIW, I pretty much did that style of investing (on my own) for the last 12 years..... want to know the results - a net loss.

You can keep the Index 500. I look at that as a lazy man's investment plan - put money in each month and ride the market hoping for an upward trend.

BTW, these are the 5 year results for the funds you linked.

5 year 0.91% 5.26% 4.90%

While I agree with everyone having the ability to manage their own fund and not pay someone else to do it, trust me when I say you're not going to be happy with those numbers 5 years from now.



Posted by calminvestor
USA
Member since Dec 2009
31 posts
Posted on 1/8/10 at 11:02 pm to
mytigger,

I appreciate the reply. I did not suggest the "Index 500" fund. I am certainly OK with you choosing your own investment plan as I will choose my own. I do not plan on retiring in 5 years as you seemed to suggest. My annual rebalancing plan includes re-assessment of my risk profile as I reach retirement age. If you're saying your timeline is only 5 years, then you may want to consider a low-risk profile with the funds I mentioned earlier with a different asset allocation.
Finally, if your timeline for retirement is more than 5 years then you may want to discontinue looking at your retirement account like it's an E-Trade account. Trading stocks or ETF's and participating in "Actively Managed Funds" is much more detrimental to your total return than any advice I shared with you, for sure. Please go read the book before you take the snippets I gave you as Daniel R. Solin's entire explanation of why you should be in Index Funds. Don't let your emotions get in the way of a good solid investment plan. You're too impatient. I read the book and continue to read. I'm fairly sure that's not "a lazy man's investment plan" as you said. Good day...
Posted by amsterdam
In His Word
Member since Jul 2008
1036 posts
Posted on 1/9/10 at 9:11 am to
quote:

No one has "beaten the market" (Actively managed funds) over the long term


100% FALSE

quote:

If you choose low-cost index funds with a company like Vanguard like I do. You only need, for instance, 3 of these low-cost index funds to make up your entire Roth IRA portfolio


Posted by amsterdam
In His Word
Member since Jul 2008
1036 posts
Posted on 1/9/10 at 9:41 am to
quote:

While I agree with everyone having the ability to manage their own fund and not pay someone else to do it,


Do yourself a favor and sit down with a professional. If your on a message board asking for advice then you should probably get some real guidance as opposed to some generic "help" you get here. It would cost you nothing but your time, and if your really good enough to do it yourself, then you should be able to decipher whether the advice your getting is sound.
Posted by kfizzle85
Member since Dec 2005
22022 posts
Posted on 1/9/10 at 12:35 pm to
Posted by mytigger
Member since Jan 2008
15341 posts
Posted on 1/9/10 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

Do yourself a favor and sit down with a professional. If your on a message board asking for advice then you should probably get some real guidance as opposed to some generic "help" you get here. It would cost you nothing but your time, and if your really good enough to do it yourself, then you should be able to decipher whether the advice your getting is sound.



My job affords me the opportunity to access several professional investors to use for my planning at no cost. And FYI, I've met with them. While I agree that you can certainly glean useful information from them, most aren't worth paying my money to invest my money for me, they're not that good. And if you think they are - they'll be only too glad to help you with it.
Posted by mytigger
Member since Jan 2008
15341 posts
Posted on 1/9/10 at 1:30 pm to
quote:

I do not plan on retiring in 5 years as you seemed to suggest


Not what I was suggesting at all. Just stating that looking back in 5 years your not going to be pleased with those types of results while you're invested in an aggressive fund.

quote:

Don't let your emotions get in the way of a good solid investment plan. You're too impatient. I read the book and continue to read. I'm fairly sure that's not "a lazy man's investment plan" as you said.


Emotions are not involved I assure you. I'm speaking from experience and hard dollar investment numbers. For me, the Index Funds are a lazy way of investing - you put your money in and look at it every couple months when your statement comes in expecting it to go up, because the market is "supposed" to go up. More often than not most people don't even know what specific companies, or bonds are in those funds- and how they are performing. That's why I call it "lazy man's" investing, I don't say to offend you, just that you (generally speaking) are putting it on someone else to make your choices for you, and 9/10 you don't even know what those choices are.

This post was edited on 1/9/10 at 1:31 pm
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