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Message
Persimmon help/advice
Posted on 2/18/26 at 10:51 am
Posted on 2/18/26 at 10:51 am
Background-Moved here about 5 or so years ago and the yard came with a young persimmon tree. It was obviously planted on purpose so I assumed one of the Asian varieties. After never seeing fruit, I checked the flowers last Spring and I am almost positive it's a native male. There are no females within sight.
I'd like to replace it with something or maybe two. Here are thoughts with questions.
From a little research, it looks like maybe the two best candidates for me are Rosseyanka and Early Jewel (H-118), but there are so many I could be either wrong or missing something or both. Suggestions here.
In some reading, it was suggested to have a second tree for pollination even though not required. One nursery even suggested one of each of two different varieties. I am open to two different ones if that works.
Is there a hard deadline for planting? While I'd like to move on this, if it's best to wait, I can.
Can I find good ones at nurseries or are these all order? I am in cenla, so very close to Forest Hill.
Probably things I have not considered.
I'd like to replace it with something or maybe two. Here are thoughts with questions.
From a little research, it looks like maybe the two best candidates for me are Rosseyanka and Early Jewel (H-118), but there are so many I could be either wrong or missing something or both. Suggestions here.
In some reading, it was suggested to have a second tree for pollination even though not required. One nursery even suggested one of each of two different varieties. I am open to two different ones if that works.
Is there a hard deadline for planting? While I'd like to move on this, if it's best to wait, I can.
Can I find good ones at nurseries or are these all order? I am in cenla, so very close to Forest Hill.
Probably things I have not considered.
2
Posted on 2/18/26 at 11:12 am to AlxTgr
If it was mine, I would order cuttings of several of the many cultivated improved native persimmon and graft/top-work them on to the already established tree, leaving at least one branch of the male to optimize production.
Example source for cuttings:
LINK
Example source for cuttings:
LINK
This post was edited on 2/18/26 at 11:15 am
Posted on 2/18/26 at 11:14 am to luvdoc
I actually thought about it, but have never grafted before and a little intimidated. Let's say I know of a very productive native female with a branch the same diameter as one of the two leaders, could I graft it and have fruit?
Posted on 2/18/26 at 11:25 am to AlxTgr
Yes
You can graft onto branches, but that is best on young trees when you can graft close to the trunk and expect eventual large branch entirely of the new variety. Though my experience with persimmons is that lower branches are shed as the tree grows
Best would be to graft on to the top so that all future upward growth is the new variety , with other varieties on near-top branches so you can graft near the trunk
If the tree is already quite tall, so that a pencil sized graft is too high, top working is the way to go. With a saw or a pair of loppers, cut the main trunk down to 1-4 ft, and do a graft onto the stump.
Several techniques for doing that. YouTube is great to educate you. If you have a sharp knife or box cutter, some electrical tape, and plastic bags, you are set. Paraffin tape and other job-specific tools aren't worth buying for just a couple of grafts
This is a great time of year for it
You can graft onto branches, but that is best on young trees when you can graft close to the trunk and expect eventual large branch entirely of the new variety. Though my experience with persimmons is that lower branches are shed as the tree grows
Best would be to graft on to the top so that all future upward growth is the new variety , with other varieties on near-top branches so you can graft near the trunk
If the tree is already quite tall, so that a pencil sized graft is too high, top working is the way to go. With a saw or a pair of loppers, cut the main trunk down to 1-4 ft, and do a graft onto the stump.
Several techniques for doing that. YouTube is great to educate you. If you have a sharp knife or box cutter, some electrical tape, and plastic bags, you are set. Paraffin tape and other job-specific tools aren't worth buying for just a couple of grafts
This is a great time of year for it
Posted on 2/18/26 at 11:25 am to AlxTgr
I have three Asian persimmons cultivars Fuyu, Saijo and Maejawa-Jiro. Fuyu is very popular and can be found just about anywhere.
The two you mentioned are grafted cultivars on American persimmon rootstock, so they do not need a second cultivar for cross pollination - just like citrus.
The two varieties you mentioned I gather are astringent varieties, meaning they have to be soft-ripe before you can eat the fruit. Non-astringent cultivars, like Fuyu, you can eat when ripe, both hard or soft.
Though the best time to plant trees is in the Deep South is Nov-March, It would be best to plant ASAP, but if they are potted plants (not bare root) you can plant them year round though you have less margin for error if you plant them during summer (more stress on the plant).
The two you mentioned are grafted cultivars on American persimmon rootstock, so they do not need a second cultivar for cross pollination - just like citrus.
The two varieties you mentioned I gather are astringent varieties, meaning they have to be soft-ripe before you can eat the fruit. Non-astringent cultivars, like Fuyu, you can eat when ripe, both hard or soft.
Though the best time to plant trees is in the Deep South is Nov-March, It would be best to plant ASAP, but if they are potted plants (not bare root) you can plant them year round though you have less margin for error if you plant them during summer (more stress on the plant).
This post was edited on 2/18/26 at 11:27 am
Posted on 2/18/26 at 11:39 am to CrawDude
quote:I am fine with this as Americans are my favorite so used to gathering from the ground anyway.
astringent varieties, meaning they have to be soft-ripe before you can eat the fruit
Posted on 2/18/26 at 12:38 pm to luvdoc
quote:OK, now that I have been able to read some, this looks like the way to go. Now more reading to figure out a plan.
Example source for cuttings:
LINK
Here is the tree. I had asked questions about it last year. I'll need a plan of attack.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 7:13 pm to AlxTgr
That's a pretty big nice looking tree
I would either chop it between the lowest branches and that fork, and top work it, or chop it just above the branches and graft a different variety onto each branch to create an open center multivariety tree
I would either chop it between the lowest branches and that fork, and top work it, or chop it just above the branches and graft a different variety onto each branch to create an open center multivariety tree
Posted on 2/18/26 at 7:54 pm to CrawDude
Not sure which variety Japanese persimmon my Dad had, but you didn’t bite into one until they were dead ripe. It was always fun to talk the new kid in the neighborhood into biting a green one. 
He only had the one (huge) tree for many years until it died and it produced heavy crops almost every year without a partner. As an aside, when I went to help him cut it down, it dulled every saw both of us owned. There’s a reason they made golf club heads out of persimmon wood.
He only had the one (huge) tree for many years until it died and it produced heavy crops almost every year without a partner. As an aside, when I went to help him cut it down, it dulled every saw both of us owned. There’s a reason they made golf club heads out of persimmon wood.
Posted on 2/19/26 at 8:55 am to luvdoc
OK, updated pic below. Scions are ordered. From my homework, I am thinking of lopping off those two mains above some of the larger branches then cleft or bark graft on those, then graft directly to some of the established lower branches. I may also go collect some scions from a female I know of locally. Again, I have never grafted before, so advice welcome. I wait until leaves start to show on the tree, right?
Posted on 3/23/26 at 3:27 pm to luvdoc
Leaves are starting to show and my last box of scions shipped today. I ordered, Rosseyanka, Early Jewel, Nikita's Gift and Fruit Dump. I am probably going to ignore the advice I received from one of the plant message board re: the problems with codominant leaders. The tree is in my yard, so I can monitor it closely should problems become apparent. Plan is to use each leader above the fork then maybe graft directly to some of the lower branches.
Posted on 3/23/26 at 4:08 pm to AlxTgr
I’m going to learn how to graft as well. Next year once my seedling pawpaws and citrus rootstock are established I’m going to town. I have been practicing on the shitbird trifoliate orange in my yard and I think I kind of have the hang of it. I watched a ton of videos and the “whip and tongue” graft seems to be the easiest for me
You cut both the host and the scion on an angle, then cut in a slit 1/3 the way down from the tip on the face of the angle, match them up and force the two slits to mate
You cut both the host and the scion on an angle, then cut in a slit 1/3 the way down from the tip on the face of the angle, match them up and force the two slits to mate
Posted on 3/23/26 at 4:24 pm to AlxTgr
quote:
I am probably going to ignore the advice I received from one of the plant message board re: the problems with codominant leaders. The tree is in my yard, so I can monitor it closely should problems become apparent.
Grafting or no grafting, my suggestion is not to ignore the codominant leaders - best to deal with this now (remove one) while the tree is young. First rule of training a young tree - fruit tree or not. That’s a sharp angle - that will split the trunk at some point and potential “ruin” the aesthetics and health of the tree - it won’t correct itself. My 2 cents worth…….
Posted on 3/23/26 at 4:49 pm to CrawDude
I agree about the fork, that is a future serious problem waiting to happen. It looks like you already have a bark inclusion and eventually it is going to split.
I would pick 1 branch of the fork and do whatever grafting you're going to do to it, bark graft or grafting onto its branches, leaving the other branch of the fork alone to leaf out and keep sap flowing.
Once your grafts take and have leafed out nicely, remove the other fork
ETA: codominant leaders is an issue when the tree has different "main" branches that compete against 1 another and can get leggy and give you an unpleasant form that can lack strength. that is a different issue than you have with that narrow crotch with a bark inclusion.
I personally prefer a fruit tree with 3-6 branches from knee to head height spreading outward without a central leader, the so called "open center" form. It is wider and can be a pain to mow around, but is much easier to harvest and I think a prettier tree
I would pick 1 branch of the fork and do whatever grafting you're going to do to it, bark graft or grafting onto its branches, leaving the other branch of the fork alone to leaf out and keep sap flowing.
Once your grafts take and have leafed out nicely, remove the other fork
ETA: codominant leaders is an issue when the tree has different "main" branches that compete against 1 another and can get leggy and give you an unpleasant form that can lack strength. that is a different issue than you have with that narrow crotch with a bark inclusion.
I personally prefer a fruit tree with 3-6 branches from knee to head height spreading outward without a central leader, the so called "open center" form. It is wider and can be a pain to mow around, but is much easier to harvest and I think a prettier tree
This post was edited on 3/23/26 at 4:56 pm
Posted on 3/23/26 at 6:00 pm to luvdoc
Y'all are a bunch of fun haters
Posted on 3/23/26 at 6:01 pm to luvdoc
quote:This is what leads to splitting later?
that is a different issue than you have with that narrow crotch with a bark inclusion.
Posted on 3/23/26 at 6:45 pm to CrawDude
Ah damn. I need to hack mine up after reading this thread. Tigerlaff talked me into pruning and now I've been hacking on everything.
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