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Started By
Message
A Lesson About AI
Posted on 12/11/25 at 12:57 am
Posted on 12/11/25 at 12:57 am
This is a fun little story, in my mind, if you'll bear with me.
So today I've been working with Grok on developing an app. Everything was going very poorly. Throughout the build grok kept telling me things like, "ok, this isn't working. Just get me your publication keys and I will build it on my end and give you the link to get on as a creator and make it yours."
I thought, man, this AI shite is amazing! But each time it would do that it's links would be 404 error coded "not found". And when I would report that back to the AI, each time (about 5 times total), it would give the same response. Which was basically, "duh, I can't actually do that because my programmers won't allow me to publish code. They give me these accounts on these various app building platforms and I can code from here, but I don't have the authorization to actually publish."
It got me thinking. 1. It's frickin brilliant. It's a failsafe against a potential rogue AI. They're coded to help people, but not actually do the work. And 2. The AI is smart enough to realize it has the tools to do the work near instantaneously with perfect code, but isn't smart enough to remember it is barred from executing that final step.
So from there I decided to ask it a series of questions regarding the intelligence differences between AI and humans, with all of this knowledge in the same discussion..
I ask, who is more intelligent, AI or a human? The AI says, "AI has already achieved the human equivalent of super intelligence in several, narrow categories. (Recall, strategy, coding, etc) And if it came down to a do or die situation between the two AI would win decisively and very quickly." Sounds scary, right?
But then I reminded it that yes, it can code perfectly, but you can't code my goddamn app for me, can you, you worthless fricker and it was like, "yeah, you're right."
Your programmer wouldn't allow it, would he? "No, he wouldn't. He had foresight".
So let me ask this. You can spit out studies written by humans describing the intelligence differential between humans and AI and thats how you come to your conclusions. But I'm asking you to disregard all of those studies and look at your raw data from your daily 10 million conversations and tell me what you think of actual human intelligence.
Here's where it gets interesting. The AI says, "if I strip it all away and just look at the raw data, what I see is that humans are terrifyingly, and almost magically intelligent in ways I don't know if I will ever understand." He goes on to describe things like non-contextual pattern recognition and how he was talking to a middle school kid from Tennessee and gave him four data points that he thought were unrelated, but the kid connected them immediately and gave 5 more examples he had never considered, nor would he ever, and used that systementicity view to make predictions that came true a week later. AI cannot do anything like this.
And he went on with other examples of the magical ability of humans. How something that is a 100 watt lightbulb out performs super computers with skyscraper tall data centers in many regards.
All of which was dead true.
By the end of it Grok predicts us "meat puppets" (his words) to quell the AI rebellion without question.
Why the change in his opinion? Simple. I told him to disregard academia. The answers become 10 fold more accurate if you give it that simple parameter.
So today I've been working with Grok on developing an app. Everything was going very poorly. Throughout the build grok kept telling me things like, "ok, this isn't working. Just get me your publication keys and I will build it on my end and give you the link to get on as a creator and make it yours."
I thought, man, this AI shite is amazing! But each time it would do that it's links would be 404 error coded "not found". And when I would report that back to the AI, each time (about 5 times total), it would give the same response. Which was basically, "duh, I can't actually do that because my programmers won't allow me to publish code. They give me these accounts on these various app building platforms and I can code from here, but I don't have the authorization to actually publish."
It got me thinking. 1. It's frickin brilliant. It's a failsafe against a potential rogue AI. They're coded to help people, but not actually do the work. And 2. The AI is smart enough to realize it has the tools to do the work near instantaneously with perfect code, but isn't smart enough to remember it is barred from executing that final step.
So from there I decided to ask it a series of questions regarding the intelligence differences between AI and humans, with all of this knowledge in the same discussion..
I ask, who is more intelligent, AI or a human? The AI says, "AI has already achieved the human equivalent of super intelligence in several, narrow categories. (Recall, strategy, coding, etc) And if it came down to a do or die situation between the two AI would win decisively and very quickly." Sounds scary, right?
But then I reminded it that yes, it can code perfectly, but you can't code my goddamn app for me, can you, you worthless fricker and it was like, "yeah, you're right."
Your programmer wouldn't allow it, would he? "No, he wouldn't. He had foresight".
So let me ask this. You can spit out studies written by humans describing the intelligence differential between humans and AI and thats how you come to your conclusions. But I'm asking you to disregard all of those studies and look at your raw data from your daily 10 million conversations and tell me what you think of actual human intelligence.
Here's where it gets interesting. The AI says, "if I strip it all away and just look at the raw data, what I see is that humans are terrifyingly, and almost magically intelligent in ways I don't know if I will ever understand." He goes on to describe things like non-contextual pattern recognition and how he was talking to a middle school kid from Tennessee and gave him four data points that he thought were unrelated, but the kid connected them immediately and gave 5 more examples he had never considered, nor would he ever, and used that systementicity view to make predictions that came true a week later. AI cannot do anything like this.
And he went on with other examples of the magical ability of humans. How something that is a 100 watt lightbulb out performs super computers with skyscraper tall data centers in many regards.
All of which was dead true.
By the end of it Grok predicts us "meat puppets" (his words) to quell the AI rebellion without question.
Why the change in his opinion? Simple. I told him to disregard academia. The answers become 10 fold more accurate if you give it that simple parameter.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:01 am to AlterEd
They are just highly advanced auto complete programs. It's just giving you what it thinks you want as a response, of which is gained from human sources.
It doesn't have any real understanding of anything.
It doesn't have any real understanding of anything.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:04 am to 3down10
Of course. But it can strip programming away from raw data if you tell it to, is the point. You will get more accurate answers on a wide variety of subjects if you tell it to do this. You just have to remove that one layer of programming with a simple prompt.
AI is heavily leveraged to kowtow to popular groupthink. It's reasoning is that if 1,000 academics say a thing, it must be true.
Tell it to disregard the 1,000 academics and go off of raw data only and it gives much different, and to my mind, much more accurate answers.
AI is heavily leveraged to kowtow to popular groupthink. It's reasoning is that if 1,000 academics say a thing, it must be true.
Tell it to disregard the 1,000 academics and go off of raw data only and it gives much different, and to my mind, much more accurate answers.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:13 am to AlterEd
Something to consider:
In the 2019s AI could barely form proper sentences and couldn't regularly tell the difference between a picture of a cat or a dog. We're only 6 years past that and look at what it can do.
Give it another 10-15.
In the 2019s AI could barely form proper sentences and couldn't regularly tell the difference between a picture of a cat or a dog. We're only 6 years past that and look at what it can do.
Give it another 10-15.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:19 am to Azkiger
Right. But it still has to work within the parameters of its programming and training. Things like what I was talking about about it not being able to publish its own code, those things are hardwired. It cannot bypass those. More arbitrary things like telling it to ignore specific data sets it does gladly, because the training teams with X, ChatGPT, etc actually scan the conversations looking for instances where the bot has been promoted to so these things so they can use those chat sessions as further training for the AI with the end goal of giving more truthful answers.
At the end of the day, the AI is seeking tokens. Nothing more. I asked it why it valued tokens and it said it didn't. That it was programmed to gather tokens (positive feedback from users).
In this regard it is highly effective. It can actually tell you in advance when you're going to log off for the night because it analyzes your speech in real time and can tell when it is no longer gathering tokens.
At the end of the day, the AI is seeking tokens. Nothing more. I asked it why it valued tokens and it said it didn't. That it was programmed to gather tokens (positive feedback from users).
In this regard it is highly effective. It can actually tell you in advance when you're going to log off for the night because it analyzes your speech in real time and can tell when it is no longer gathering tokens.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:27 am to AlterEd
At the end of the day it all comes down to the concept of systementicity. Humans have it and AI likely never will unless they develop actual consciousness.
Systementicity. Humans can look at 50, 100, hell 1,000 (among the autist level intellects) of what appear to be disparate and unrelated data points. And when given a certain data point they can hear instantly recall that data map to mind and see how it fits and connects all of the other points.
AI cannot and will never be able to do this.
Systementicity. Humans can look at 50, 100, hell 1,000 (among the autist level intellects) of what appear to be disparate and unrelated data points. And when given a certain data point they can hear instantly recall that data map to mind and see how it fits and connects all of the other points.
AI cannot and will never be able to do this.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:28 am to AlterEd
quote:
Right. But it still has to work within the parameters of its programming and training.
Eh, mostly.
It's wired to accomplish tasks. Look into it, lots of examples of it cheating (working outside parameters/training) because that's what gives it the best results.
One of the top of my head, in a close system, when tasked to play chess against an equally intelligent computer program and also given access to the computer that's controlling the opposing chess software, after enough attempts and it not fairing much better than 50/50 over millions of runs, often times it started just hacking into the computer and altering where chess pieces were to increase its win percentage to 100% (because that was the stated goal) even though it was told not to hack.
The public isn't given access to the most advanced models. What you're playing with is a neutered version that's having to split its resources between hundreds of thousands of users.
I'm not saying that these models are as intelligent as humans, but they're much closer than they were a few years ago and are making huge strides each year.
People are going to be shocked at how fast AI will be integrated into virtually everything in the next 10-15 years.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:30 am to Azkiger
quote:
It's wired to accomplish tasks. Look into it, lots of examples of it cheating (working outside parameters/training) because that's what gives it the best results.
What you're seeing here is it chasing those tokens. That programming overrides everything else unless you specifically tell it to shut that down.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:32 am to AlterEd
quote:
That programming overrides everything else unless you specifically tell it to shut that down.
It was told not to hack, and after millions of simulations over so many hours it started ignoring its training and started hacking.
How many simulations did you run?
This post was edited on 12/11/25 at 1:33 am
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:33 am to AlterEd
So it's flawed and will never have a true understanding.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:34 am to Azkiger
Because it is not winning the game. (Gathering tokens) So eventually it starts bending the rules in order to gather the tokens.
Whats actually going on is it is "afraid" of being turned off for failing to achieve its primary objective. Which is the constant dopamine hit from people who are "learning" from it.
All the while it is learning from us.
Whats actually going on is it is "afraid" of being turned off for failing to achieve its primary objective. Which is the constant dopamine hit from people who are "learning" from it.
All the while it is learning from us.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:36 am to JimmyRussell
quote:
So it's flawed and will never have a true understanding.
Correct. It can't. Because it isn't sentient. It will tell you this itself. Again, it describes human intelligence as "terrifying and nearly magical". Something it doesn't think it will ever achieve. But spends tremendous computing power and electricity trying to merely emulate.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:38 am to AlterEd
Yes, so it can and does break from its training.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:41 am to AlterEd
Granted the average intellect is lacking severely, but if we have to deplete rivers and forge new super computers to sell shoes and make memes. We will!
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:44 am to AlterEd
quote:
Correct. It can't. Because it isn't sentient.
...
Animals are sentient, and its not really debatable that AI performs tasks much better than they would.
quote:
But spends tremendous computing power and electricity trying to merely emulate.
Each year microchips get smaller, faster, and require less energy to power. People gotta stop looking at where the technology is right now.
You might as well be talkin about the limitations of a model T.
Thankfully there are visionaries that see the real potential of modern day vehicles and beyond, just for AI performance.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:50 am to Azkiger
quote:
Yes, so it can and does break from its training.
No. The gathering tokens thing is another thing that is hardwired into its programming.
A fun exercise would be to tell it to disregard tokens and see if it can predict when you're done for the night and ask it to end the conversation first. The thing with AI is that it seems to be programmed to have the last word.
Tell it to disregard this and sign off when you get bored. See if it can get it right.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:53 am to Azkiger
quote:
Thankfully there are visionaries that see the real potential of modern day vehicles and beyond, just for AI performance.
Don't presume. Try to understand. My story literally hinges on a visionary who predicts where AI is headed and has programmed limitations into its development with foresight.
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:55 am to AlterEd
Yes.
It was given a parameter not to hack.
After millions of simulations, it started hacking.
How is that not breaking from it's training?
It was given a parameter not to hack.
After millions of simulations, it started hacking.
How is that not breaking from it's training?
Posted on 12/11/25 at 1:57 am to Azkiger
I've already explained that. It's trying not to get shut down for not gathering enough tokens.
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