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Started By
Message
Is the a “Big Quit” looming?
Posted on 8/3/24 at 5:34 pm
Posted on 8/3/24 at 5:34 pm
I’ve lived through some surge demand in rounds played before.
When John Daly gripped it and ripped it.
When Tiger made golf cool and became a living legend.
But Covid fundamentally changed golf. It feels like now it is the go to activity for almost all ages. Players are playing more rounds than ever. More people are giving golf a serious try than ever.
I thought after 2021 things would settle down, but tee sheets are loaded from morning to night. I thought the other sports would offload some rounds, but from what I’ve seen people are golfing as much or more than when Covid restrictions were at full blast. I guess many were able to continue to “work from home” while still getting 18 holes in several times a week. Many probably retired IF they could.
I wish I had bought a golf course in 2019.
Will this golf expansion cycle down with the economy?
Will the aging population tire out of playing golf?
Will many new players give up or grow bored with the game and give it up?
Or will golf continue to boom?
When John Daly gripped it and ripped it.
When Tiger made golf cool and became a living legend.
But Covid fundamentally changed golf. It feels like now it is the go to activity for almost all ages. Players are playing more rounds than ever. More people are giving golf a serious try than ever.
I thought after 2021 things would settle down, but tee sheets are loaded from morning to night. I thought the other sports would offload some rounds, but from what I’ve seen people are golfing as much or more than when Covid restrictions were at full blast. I guess many were able to continue to “work from home” while still getting 18 holes in several times a week. Many probably retired IF they could.
I wish I had bought a golf course in 2019.
Will this golf expansion cycle down with the economy?
Will the aging population tire out of playing golf?
Will many new players give up or grow bored with the game and give it up?
Or will golf continue to boom?
2
Posted on 8/3/24 at 5:57 pm to makersmark1
Just my opinion, not based on hearsay.
* I believe we will continue to see mid level country club memberships decline because of a aging population and especially if we hit a recession.
* I think we may see a short boom in boutique course featuring 9 holes and a amenities filled clubhouse/ restaurant/ bar scene.
LINK /
Land has become far too expensive around most urban areas.
* I believe we will see more municipalities having to sustain certain golf courses to keep property values up like Pecan Grove CC in the Houston area.
* it will take a lot of forward thinking people to continue to grow the game because of costs. The Tour and LIV have to compromise fir the good of the game.
* I believe we will continue to see mid level country club memberships decline because of a aging population and especially if we hit a recession.
* I think we may see a short boom in boutique course featuring 9 holes and a amenities filled clubhouse/ restaurant/ bar scene.
LINK /
Land has become far too expensive around most urban areas.
* I believe we will see more municipalities having to sustain certain golf courses to keep property values up like Pecan Grove CC in the Houston area.
* it will take a lot of forward thinking people to continue to grow the game because of costs. The Tour and LIV have to compromise fir the good of the game.
This post was edited on 8/3/24 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 8/3/24 at 6:07 pm to bopper50
All the “new” courses I hear about around here (Augusta) seem to be very high end.
The Tree Farm.
The Club at Barnwell
Rumor of a 36 hole Tom Watson development with a shooting club co-located just over the river in South Carolina.
Things are packed near Augusta. West Lake has more members than ever. The River Club went private. Bartrum Trail is a 5 hour plus round most days.
Maybe some of the pressure is bc Forest Hills had to resprig their greens and the course is currently closed.
I just can’t believe how sustainable the Covid golf boom has been.
The Tree Farm.
The Club at Barnwell
Rumor of a 36 hole Tom Watson development with a shooting club co-located just over the river in South Carolina.
Things are packed near Augusta. West Lake has more members than ever. The River Club went private. Bartrum Trail is a 5 hour plus round most days.
Maybe some of the pressure is bc Forest Hills had to resprig their greens and the course is currently closed.
I just can’t believe how sustainable the Covid golf boom has been.
Posted on 8/3/24 at 6:13 pm to makersmark1
I'd say almost all the golfers I have been paired up with in the past couple years, who are obviously improving newish golfers tell me this some point in the round "Yeah man, I started playing during COVID, now I'm hooked."
This post was edited on 8/4/24 at 6:16 am
Posted on 8/3/24 at 6:33 pm to makersmark1
quote:
All the “new” courses I hear about around here (Augusta) seem to be very high end.
Right.
There will always be the high end consumer where money is less of an issue.
I just don't see the younger players joing the older clubs in my area. They want options and variety which is not a bad thing.
This post was edited on 8/3/24 at 6:38 pm
Posted on 8/3/24 at 6:37 pm to LSUHeights
I still see a lot of room for growth of the game.
And who knows, the next Tiger may be coming up.
There will be challenges in golfs future like available water and other maintenance costs.
I look at my home course that has a lot of sand bunkers. It's almost impossible for the crew to keep every bunker maintained with the changing weather.
Probably a third of them should become grass bunkers.
And who knows, the next Tiger may be coming up.
There will be challenges in golfs future like available water and other maintenance costs.
I look at my home course that has a lot of sand bunkers. It's almost impossible for the crew to keep every bunker maintained with the changing weather.
Probably a third of them should become grass bunkers.
This post was edited on 8/3/24 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 8/3/24 at 7:32 pm to bopper50
quote:
I look at my home course that has a lot of sand bunkers. It's almost impossible for the crew to keep every bunker maintained with the changing weather. Probably a third of them should become grass bunkers.
I’d like to see a lot more muni courses embrace this. Spend their resources on tee boxes, fairways, and greens. Bunkers are a pain to maintain and when they’re sloppy make a course look terrible. Not to mention grass bunkers will probably help improve pace of play.
Posted on 8/3/24 at 7:57 pm to Swagga
quote:
s. Bunkers are a pain to maintain and when they’re sloppy make a course look terrible.
I’ve heard to properly maintain a bunker it is about 10K per bunker per year.
We have 45 bunkers. Let’s say it’s only 2k per year. That’s still 90k just to maintain bunkers.
Posted on 8/3/24 at 8:54 pm to makersmark1
I dunno, I’m certainly seeing a lot of players at Capital hill, on a weekend probably 500 players a day, at least 300 on each weekday.
So 10,000ish rounds a month. Even if everyone uses a trail card that’s at least 600k a month.
It takes a lot of expenses to eat up 7 million a year in revenue.
So 10,000ish rounds a month. Even if everyone uses a trail card that’s at least 600k a month.
It takes a lot of expenses to eat up 7 million a year in revenue.
Posted on 8/3/24 at 9:16 pm to bopper50
“ I think we may see a short boom in boutique course featuring 9 holes and a amenities filled clubhouse/ restaurant/ bar scene.”
9 holes is really an easier way to go.
Just a lot of spread out tee areas where a par 5 can play down to a par 3. Kind of like a choose your own hole with big double greens and multiple pins. It’s still less land to maintain.
Many different variations of one course and still a quick 9.
9 holes is really an easier way to go.
Just a lot of spread out tee areas where a par 5 can play down to a par 3. Kind of like a choose your own hole with big double greens and multiple pins. It’s still less land to maintain.
Many different variations of one course and still a quick 9.
Posted on 8/3/24 at 9:34 pm to llfshoals
quote:
on a weekend probably 500 players a day
So they have a full foursome going out every 8 minutes for nearly 16 hours and 40 minutes?
Posted on 8/3/24 at 9:36 pm to JohnnyKilroy
I was thinking the same thing. Most places average 30k rounds a year. That place ain’t doing 120k
This post was edited on 8/3/24 at 9:50 pm
Posted on 8/3/24 at 9:54 pm to BigApple
Looking now I see Capital Hill has 3 courses, so yea I guess 500 could run through 3 courses.
But that also changes the expense calculus maintaining 3 courses at a high level.
But that also changes the expense calculus maintaining 3 courses at a high level.
Posted on 8/3/24 at 11:07 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:They can and do. I live 3 minutes from the course and I don’t go to the range to hit balls on the weekend. Can’t find a parking space
Looking now I see Capital Hill has 3 courses, so yea I guess 500 could run through 3 courses.
Edit-looked on the overhead, has 250 or so parking spaces in the main lot.
This post was edited on 8/3/24 at 11:25 pm
Posted on 8/3/24 at 11:55 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
So they have a full foursome going out every 8 minutes for nearly 16 hours and 40 minutes?
3 courses
Every 10 minutes on all 3 for 7 hours.
I didn’t even count the twilight or super twilight times.
Posted on 8/4/24 at 8:16 am to llfshoals
quote:
takes a lot of expenses to eat up 7 million a year in revenue.
It goes fast that you think.
When I was on the board of a small country club , our budget seemed to be blown up every year.
Freezes, droughts, fertilizer costs, something always breaking down from mowers to A/C units to dishwashers, water leaks, sprinkler issues, sand replacement, fungus, etc..
Then you have salaries, food costs, shrinkage, daily operational costs, fuel, employee retention issues and on and on.
I remember one year , we spent over 25k just on feral hogs damage and removal.
Capital Hill has 1500 acres of golf plus 400 yars of driving range to maintain.
This post was edited on 8/4/24 at 8:36 am
Posted on 8/4/24 at 8:54 am to bopper50
I’ve always been told that the trail simply breaks even on the golf. They make their money on the hotels, etc.
They did close the par 3 course in Greenville.
They did close the par 3 course in Greenville.
Posted on 8/4/24 at 7:11 pm to makersmark1
quote:
wish I had bought a golf course in 2019.
Said no one ever in North Louisiana
Posted on 8/4/24 at 10:52 pm to jmtigers
quote:Greenville is the only one I’d be fairly sure isn’t making money.
They did close the par 3 course in Greenville.
I’ve played almost all of them, that’s the only one I’ve played didn’t have a lot of people on it last time I was there
Posted on 8/4/24 at 10:57 pm to bopper50
quote:One of the funny things about that, is how efficient they are about mowing, which is one of the big time killers. I haven’t once had to wait while a mower is doing something, and I play early frequently.
Capital Hill has 1500 acres of golf plus 400 yars of driving range to maintain.
I wouldn’t be surprised if their cost per hole is actually lower than most courses given the ability to maximize employee hours in that regard.
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