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Blood sugar question

Posted on 7/24/24 at 12:14 pm
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
70772 posts
Posted on 7/24/24 at 12:14 pm
43 male. Lift heavy x 25 years now, eat primarily meat and veggies. Little to no alcohol and will have an ice cream or some popcorn once or twice a week with the kids like most people.

5’8,165. 31.75 inch waist and good muscle definition with fairly visible abs.

For years I’ve been mildly tending up in A1c. 5.2/3 at 35 all the way up to 5.8/5.9 now. In December I was 6.0, upped my lifting even more, get at least 110g of protein, probably don’t eat more than 100g carbs on most days tops (a serving of fruit, mostly vegetables).

Got bloods redrawn 6 months later and only down to 5.9. He redrew with another lab and 5.8.

With the fasting 5.9 aic I had a fasting glucose of 108 and insulin of 5.8 (which he said could be a touch lower but wasn’t crazy high)

Interestingly on the redraw it also did glucose even though I wasn’t fasting (had a protein shake one hour ish prior) and I was 91 which is lower than any fasting I’ve had in years.

Given that I mainly skip breakfast(intermittently fast) could it just be that my body doesn’t LIKE fasting and I just dump a bit too much sugar into my system in the morning to compensate? I do tend to be on the higher end of normal with my cortisol scores.

I’m pretty sure my issue is more a higher floor than having a ton of spikes throughout the day.

I know we have members on this board that are better than most MDs in terms of insight into metabolism so anything is appreciated.
This post was edited on 7/24/24 at 12:55 pm
Posted by Cactus Tiger
Scottsdale, AZ
Member since Sep 2008
346 posts
Posted on 7/24/24 at 2:14 pm to
My glucose numbers are similar to yours.

I've got my fasting glucose down to mid 90's now. Haven't checked my a1c since I changed my diet.

I'm doing Berberine 500mg three times a day. Take the last one around 5pm otherwise I can't sleep.

No fruit juice, minimal sugar, low carb and no carbs after 5pm. Lots of protein.
Posted by diat150
Louisiana
Member since Jun 2005
47151 posts
Posted on 7/24/24 at 2:23 pm to
id get one of the monitors that you wear to see what its doing thru the day.after a couple of months you should have the data you need to see whats going on then. anything else is a guess.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
36558 posts
Posted on 7/24/24 at 5:36 pm to
Why so little protein?
Posted by lsu xman
Member since Oct 2006
16682 posts
Posted on 7/24/24 at 6:17 pm to
Any family history of diabetes?
Posted by Lawyered
The Sip
Member since Oct 2016
37018 posts
Posted on 7/24/24 at 7:17 pm to
quote:

Given that I mainly skip breakfast(intermittently fast) could it just be that my body doesn’t LIKE fasting and I just dump a bit too much sugar into my system in the morning to compensate? I do tend to be on the higher end of normal with my cortisol scores.


The dawn phenomenon

It’s a thing

I’m in terrible shape, with HTN and a family history of diabetes.. however I check my blood sugar a few times a week… my BS is always highest when I wake up .. it’s at predictive range

However I can eat half a pizza or drink several beers and an hour later my BS is 110.. solid as a rock.. it’s crazy ..

Posted by DrDenim
By the airport
Member since Sep 2022
936 posts
Posted on 7/24/24 at 7:43 pm to
I was about to say the same thing. Dawn effect or dawn phenomenon. But your hgba1c is elevated as well, and it could just be due to genetics. As the saying goes, "there's no outrunning genetics".

Have you ever done a glucose tolerance test? Ask your doctor about that.

You could shift your macro intake to be more protein heavy (keep overall calories the same if you want to, but I wouldn't be afraid to gain 5-10lbs either, but that's up to you) and try to add some more lean tissue to your frame with resistance training.
This post was edited on 7/25/24 at 9:20 am
Posted by hob
Member since Dec 2017
2341 posts
Posted on 7/24/24 at 10:14 pm to
quote:

probably don’t eat more than 100g carbs on most days tops (a serving of fruit, mostly vegetables).



Track your carb intake for a week. I suspect it’s higher than you think.
Medication, stress or lack of sleep can also cause high glucose readings.

Posted by Rendlo
Member since Jun 2024
593 posts
Posted on 7/25/24 at 7:56 am to
IMO, you should be getting at least 165g of protein. I would also guess that you are getting more than 100g of carbs if you aren't trackiing. It's wild how I underestimated how many calories and carbs I was getting prior to tracking.
Posted by ecb
Member since Jul 2010
10083 posts
Posted on 7/25/24 at 9:16 pm to
The A1C is what matters, if it's creeping up with a strict diet it's just that you are becoming more insulin resistant which can happen as we age especially if your genetics are bad.

As someone else pointed out, once I started tracking my carbs, I was shocked at much I was consuming.

Aerobic exercise helps me.
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
70772 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

Any family history of diabetes?


None.
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
70772 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

I was about to say the same thing. Dawn effect or dawn phenomenon. But your hgba1c is elevated as well, and it could just be due to genetics. As the saying goes, "there's no outrunning genetics". Have you ever done a glucose tolerance test? Ask your doctor about that. You could shift your macro intake to be more protein heavy (keep overall calories the same if you want to, but I wouldn't be afraid to gain 5-10lbs either, but that's up to you) and try to add some more lean tissue to your frame with resistance training.


I do a ton of resistance training and heavy 4-5 days a week. I’m pretty heavily muscled for my frame.

Like this isn’t meant to sound like a brag but people regularly comment about how good of shape Im in for my age. That’s why this is a weird thing to me.

I’ve done my own GTT. I’ll spike to 150-160 eating a banana and some other carbs in combination but it responds pretty well and back to just over 100 within 2 hours.


This post was edited on 7/26/24 at 12:50 pm
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
70772 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 12:41 pm to
quote:

Why so little protein?


Kinda force myself to even consume that much.

I just don’t eat a ton in general.

quote:

Medication, stress or lack of sleep can also cause high glucose readings.


Yeah they’re actually having me do a sleep study.
This post was edited on 7/26/24 at 12:57 pm
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
70772 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 12:49 pm to
quote:

. I would also guess that you are getting more than 100g of carbs if you aren't trackiing. It's wild how I underestimated how many calories and carbs I was getting prior to tracking.


I do track a decent amount. It obviously varies with schedule and kids schedule but a lot of days it’s sub 50 or even sub 30, some days it’s 120-150 on weekend.
Posted by DrDenim
By the airport
Member since Sep 2022
936 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 5:04 pm to
Hmm, I can't think of anything else. Do you have any indication of kidney dysfunction? Liver? Do you still have your gallbladder? I also wonder if it's not something stress or sleep related. You're somewhat of an anomaly, nothing about you sounds like you should be pre-diabetic or even close to it. This is very interesting. Someone else mentioned getting a continuous glucose monitor, I don't know if I'd go that far. In my knowledge those things are pretty pricey and you'd have to buy it out of pocket because you're not diabetic, but maybe your elevated hgba1c would allow your pcp to order you one. I dunno. But I do know you could buy a good old fashioned glucometer at the drugstore and just do fingerstick checks. I just wonder when your spikes arre actually happening and what causes them.
Posted by StreamsOfWhiskey
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Jun 2013
827 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 5:44 pm to
Type 1 here for the last 43 years. A1Cs run in the 4.5 - 4.7 range for the last 20 years or so. There is some good information on here. The morning effect is a real thing. The minute my eyes open in the morning, my blood sugar starts to rise. I’ll give a shot of basal and bolus fast acting just to keep it from rising too much.

An A1C of 6 is the equivalent blood sugar of 140, which is way too high for someone without diabetes. I’d argue it’s way too high for a diabetic as evidence shows damage occurring at blood sugars above 100. Take that with some perspective, mind you. We’re all dying a little bit at a time. I try and keep my blood sugars under 90. It’s not easy.

I eat high protein/ fat and very low carb. I also lift heavy five nights a week. I weigh in at 190 and I’m 6’1. I’m very lean and very muscular.

Not sure the morning effect will cause an A1C that high, but I could be wrong. I guess if it rose and stayed elevated for a prolonged period of time it could explain it, but I’m doubtful that’s your case.

I’d suggest buying a glucometer and checking 30 minutes after a meals to get a gauge on what your meals are doing to you. Two hours after a meal which is the typical recommendation is too much time and allows for the spike to occur and the inevitable drop back into the normal range before you’re any the wiser.

If you’re spiking after meals it will have a noticeable impact to A1C. Also be aware that the A1C test is very heavily weighted to the previous two weeks. It’s not a perfect test but it’s what we have.

I subscribe to the Bernstein school of thought and methodology for calculating blood sugar equivalent. You may find a different result than the one that I gave you.
Posted by StreamsOfWhiskey
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Jun 2013
827 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 5:46 pm to
That’s a lot of carbs. That will impact blood sugar.
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
70772 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 6:42 pm to
quote:

Hmm, I can't think of anything else. Do you have any indication of kidney dysfunction? Liver?


Nope everything else looks good. I have high lipoprotein a (genetic) but all other lipids are solid and in range including really low triglycerides. I do have lower testosterone 360-400 total) low normal free. I tried hcg for a few months at a modest dose which shot it to like 700 and they said it’s more pituitary/secondary due to such a robust response to a leutenizing hormone analog. So I got off of it due to how expensive it is and just kept pushing forward with diet and exercise.

quote:

I also wonder if it's not something stress or sleep related.


This is what they attributed the hormone stuff to because again doesn’t really make sense.

I’ve had a stressful few years. After Covid I started getting hundreds to thousands of PVCs daily and some PACs out of the blue. I’ve had a lot of work ups (all check out great) and even an ablation to try and fix it because they’re very symptomatic and it greatly impacted my quality of life(really active with 3 young kids) especially the runs of bigeminy that really take your breath away after awhile. It sucks because it’s not like it’s an arrhythmia that you get really tachycardic with but will just start skipping when I’m resting and after eating. But I know it’s not going to kill me so I keep working out and just trying to live right.

I do wake several times a night/ no snoring.

The responses in this thread have been great so far and very much appreciated.

This post was edited on 7/26/24 at 6:53 pm
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
70772 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 6:47 pm to
quote:

Not sure the morning effect will cause an A1C that high, but I could be wrong. I guess if it rose and stayed elevated for a prolonged period of time it could explain it, but I’m doubtful that’s your case.


I found it weird that a fasting glucose would be 108 close to 10 am but a non fasted one hour post protein shake (45ish grams of protein) and probably only 10ish carbs I’d be 91 on the redraw.

I know just a couple data points but fasting usually 99-low 100s.

That’s why I wondered if maybe a modest high fat/protein meal right after waking may be the way to interrupt the prolonged higher fasting number instead of letting it go for hours.
This post was edited on 7/26/24 at 6:54 pm
Posted by StreamsOfWhiskey
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Jun 2013
827 posts
Posted on 7/26/24 at 7:26 pm to
Couple of things to remember: fat will not raise blood sugar. Too much protein most definitely will. I find if I eat a big steak, say 12 oz or greater, I have no immediate blood sugar impact. Give it three to four hours later, some of my biggest blood sugar spikes have occurred after a heavy protein and low carb meal. If you eat till you’re absolutely stuffed, you will spike your blood sugar even if you ate no carbs. Bernstein explains this in his book, “Diabetes Solution.”
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