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re: Checking in on the “keep prayer out of school” crowd

Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:30 am to
Posted by Damone
FoCo
Member since Aug 2016
32966 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:30 am to
Why did the church cover it up?
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
23593 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:31 am to
quote:

I would like to think so, but no way anyone can know how the world would be if it weren't apart of the worlds foundational fabric.


Fair.

Is there any reason you think Jesus didn't explicitly condemn slavery as sinful?
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
31767 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:34 am to
quote:

Why did the church cover it up?
m
Because pedos infiltrated the church. Derp.

Posted by Tasseo
Member since Feb 2024
2913 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:36 am to
quote:

Azkiger

You seem to be ignorant about how slavery was used to build the world. How it wasn't looked as a negative but as a way of life. You are looking at it thru today's lens, but it's to complicated an issue to do so.

quote:

I thought Jesus was the most impactful historical figure? Surely if he condemned slavery as sinful it would have made waves in future Christian cultures.

He obviously didn't have to specifically, as his teachings(influence) eventually got us there.
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
23593 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:39 am to
quote:

You seem to be ignorant about how slavery was used to build the world. How it wasn't looked as a negative but as a way of life. You are looking at it thru today's lens, but it's to complicated an issue to do so.



Something is either right or wrong, thoughts and views of people from certain time periods don't change that.

quote:

He obviously didn't have to specifically, as his teachings(influence) eventually got us there.


1.) How many tens of millions of lives has to be crushed in order for us to "eventually get there"?

2.) Why not rely on that same passive learning that takes nearly 2000 years for other sins, like adultery? He specifically called that out several times.
This post was edited on 4/28/24 at 9:42 am
Posted by Tasseo
Member since Feb 2024
2913 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:49 am to
quote:

Something is either right or wrong, thoughts and views of people from certain time periods don't change that.

Yes it does. Right and wrong pre-Jesus are different. It's not a snap your fingers magic trick type of change when it comes to human nature.

The last 60 or so years has proven this in a negative direction. Pre-2k gay marriage was fundamentally wrong in this nation, but now we have a political party with a pro-gender destruction of children national agenda. Abortion was right in this nation either but now the same political parties agenda pushes infanticide. I think these 2 are wrong, 20 years ago that was the normal thought, but now it could get people put in jail for thinking it's wrong.
Posted by Great Plains Drifter
Member since Jul 2019
5789 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:51 am to
Looks like some Fundamental Change going on.

Barry is no doubt pleased. Soros and the other Western deconstructionists are as well.
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
23593 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:53 am to
quote:

The last 60 or so years has proven this in a negative direction. Pre-2k gay marriage was fundamentally wrong in this nation, but now we have a political party with a pro-gender destruction of children national agenda. Abortion was right in this nation either but now the same political parties agenda pushes infanticide. I think these 2 are wrong, 20 years ago that was the normal thought, but now it could get people put in jail for thinking it's wrong.


So if social opinion determines morality, why aren't you changing your moral stances? Because your moral stances aren't tied to public opinion, it's tied to a moral framework.

That being the case, why are you saying the morality of slavery is a complex topic because views on it have changed through history?

It's either right or wrong. What some tribe or country thought 1000 years ago is irrelevant.
Posted by Tasseo
Member since Feb 2024
2913 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:56 am to
quote:

1.) How many tens of millions of lives has to be crushed in order for us to "eventually get there"?

Still looking at a past situation thru today's eyes. We got there. The rough road made us better, but still needs a lot of work.
quote:

2.) Why not rely on that same passive learning that takes nearly 2000 years for other sins, like adultery? He specifically called that out several times.

This is a different moral stance that can be used to build a better society on. Ie...making a slave owner know he is being sinful if he sexually abuses his slave. Slavery in it's purest form may not be the worst thing for people who need that life, but the abuses that was taken advantage of then gets wrong. Fixing those wrongs got us where we are today.

Again, as a Christian I don't question His reasoning as to the "why".
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
53964 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:59 am to
quote:

I thought Jesus was the most impactful historical figure?


Obviously true. You have done a great job thinking critically here.

quote:

Surely if he condemned slavery as sinful it would have made waves in future Christian cultures.


Men sin. Pretty simple concept really.
Posted by Tasseo
Member since Feb 2024
2913 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:59 am to
Here's the Dawkins 'Christian Culturalism' stance that I referenced earlier...

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Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
23593 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:02 am to
quote:

Men sin. Pretty simple concept really.


So why call out any sin at all?
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
53964 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:03 am to
quote:

Something is either right or wrong, thoughts and views of people from certain time periods don't change that.


Chattel slavery is not the same as the type of slavery that existed under Jewish law.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
53964 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:04 am to
quote:

So why call out any sin at all?


This question makes no sense. That's exactly what Christians did and exactly why chattel slavery was largely ended as a practice in the West.
Posted by VOR
Member since Apr 2009
64435 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:05 am to
You’re really saying the main
dichotomy in American classrooms is Christian prayers vs. bowing in Islamic prayer…. a binary choice? lolol.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
53964 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:06 am to
quote:

Here's the Dawkins 'Christian Culturalism' stance that I referenced earlier...


Smart people think exactly as he does.

Stupid people play "gotcha" games in an attempt to discredit Christianity.
Posted by imjustafatkid
Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
53964 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:07 am to
quote:

You’re really saying the main
dichotomy in American classrooms is Christian prayers vs. bowing in Islamic prayer…. a binary choice? lolol.


Of course. It's Christianity or paganism. Those are the only choices.
Posted by Tasseo
Member since Feb 2024
2913 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:17 am to
quote:

Stupid people play "gotcha" games in an attempt to discredit Christianity.

Exactly. The use of slavery is funny too. Something that was ended by Christian values, and hasn't existed in our land in our lifetime. Yet nothing to discuss stopping the promotion of gender destruction of children and infanticide of our babies. Legit evil happening in our country right now and they harp on evil that was squashed over a hundred years ago. They are legitimately the "pro-slavery" types of today and can't see it.
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
23593 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:32 am to
quote:

Chattel slavery is not the same as the type of slavery that existed under Jewish law.


With respect to foreigners, no. Whatever minor distinctions you can squeeze out do not make a difference.
Posted by Azkiger
Member since Nov 2016
23593 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:35 am to
quote:

Something that was ended by Christian values


Secular pressures on Christian values.

If it were purely Christian values it would have been adopted immediately, like all the other Christian values. Instead it took nearly 2000 years.

Probably because Jesus never spoke against it. Which is why I asked that question earlier.
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