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re: The purpose of separation of church and state
Posted on 3/24/24 at 9:17 am to BayouBlitz
Posted on 3/24/24 at 9:17 am to BayouBlitz
quote:
So you're refuting a founding father?
8 of the original colonies refute letters made by Jefferson.
These state religions even benefitted financially from the state treasuries.
How can the first amendment mean that the "states" cannot have organized religions when 8 of them already had religions?
What was the guiding principle of the Bill of Rights?
To limit the powers of state governments?
Or to limit the powers of the federal governments?
Jefferson was smart. And political.
If he needed to assuage a foreigner on notions of no official US religion, he was going to write such letters in a way.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 9:25 am to BayouBlitz
quote:
Oh For fricks Sake.
There’s no record of Madison saying that in any text until 1994. The quote is of questionable origin. Sucks to suck.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 9:43 am to BayouBlitz
That simply means no official State religion.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 9:44 am to Audustxx
quote:
It was to keep the government out of the church business
It was also very much to keep the church out of governmental affairs. Look at how the Vatican controlled so many European governments for centuries. Then do a little study on the church of England and see how that went.
Churches, like government, lose sight of their purpose when they wield too much power. In the case of the church we can see how the leaders became corrupted by riches and power and made use of their "divine right" to demand more and more of the laity whom they increasingly oppressed.
By the same token, we see how riches and power corrupt secular governments as well. Our federal government is a prime example. Just as the church declared their authority came from the divine will of God, our government claims their authority comes from the divine will of the people. But, truth be told, the church had become corrupted and the manner in which it ruled in no way resembled the will of God. And, in our current situation here in the US, we can see that despite the fact that the people get to vote for their representatives, senators, and president, those who attain office do little to serve those by whom they were elected and seek only to increase their own power and wealth as they accept gifts, bribes, and praises for the favors they dole out to the highest bidder.
The absolute LAST thing we need is a government who declares itself the divine hand of God anymore than they already to without so many words.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 12:02 pm to BayouBlitz
So, OP ran with quote that even Snopes, leftist nutjobs that they are, deemed false? ROFLMAO
Posted on 3/24/24 at 12:28 pm to BayouBlitz
quote:
And you're more knowledgeable about the founding fathers mindset than him?
Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story was a contemporary of the founders. He was fine with the State favoring Christianity.
quote:
In his work, A Familiar Exposition of the Constitution of the United States, Justice Story, had this to say about the purpose the First Amendment:
We are not to attribute this prohibition of a national religious establishment [in the First Amendment] to an indifference to religion in general, and especially to Christianity (which none could hold in more reverence than the framers of the Constitution)....
Probably, at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, and of the Amendment to it now under consideration, the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship.
Any attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation.
In other words, the purpose of the First Amendment was to protect a religious people from the government -- not to protect the government from a religious people. It is perfectly all right, under the First Amendment, for the Government of the United States to favor Christianity over other faiths -- so long as other faiths are not persecuted by the government, and so long as the national government does not attempt to set up a national church, such as the Anglican Church in England.
Posted on 3/24/24 at 12:37 pm to thejuiceisloose
quote:
Those two constitutional provisions clearly state to me that we have the freedom from religion.
Those two provisions clearly state that members of Congress have freedom from religious tests in order to serve in Congress and citizens have freedom from Congress establishing a religion.
They don't say anything about any other branches of government, they don't say anything about state governments, county governments, or local governments.
And the second specifically states that Congress can't prohibit free exercise of religion.
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