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re: If you believe your rights come from God then you are a Christian Nationalist
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:00 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:00 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
There are religious people who are evil and non-believers who are good and moral.
I don't really see the two as connected.
I was raised Catholic as well but generally consider myself an agnostic. My question is focused on your use of the word inherent. I dont believe its inherent and that its a societal construct. Believers in a higher power can make the case its objective but I've never heard atheist or non believer do so. So where does an atheist believe these inherent rights come from? If they are subjective then they arent inherent.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:14 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:
So where does an atheist believe these inherent rights come from? If they are subjective then they arent inherent.
You’ve heard of the term “human rights”? Thats the same thing, bro.
The right to live, determine the course of your own life, and believe what you want to believe. As long as those beliefs and actions don’t take away someone else’s or harm them, have at it.
These rights exist because we do as humans. They come from the ability to reason which is what makes us different from animals.
Likewise, the most murderous, brutal regimes were the atheistic Socialist movements of the 20th Century: Soviet Russia, Nazi Germany, Cambodia, Maoist China, and many many Communist regimes in Africa. I’d argue that any atheistic movement that has come to fruition in recent history has not been beneficial for the people it governed.
This post was edited on 2/23/24 at 11:26 am
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:16 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:I get into these debates all the time. It's my favorite thing to bring up with naturalist/atheists. They make objective morality arguments, then say morality is subjective. Because they know that there is no way to say that it is objective without there being of source for that objective morality. But to make a moral argument, you are proving objective morality.
I was raised Catholic as well but generally consider myself an agnostic. My question is focused on your use of the word inherent. I dont believe its inherent and that its a societal construct. Believers in a higher power can make the case its objective but I've never heard atheist or non believer do so. So where does an atheist believe these inherent rights come from? If they are subjective then they aren't inherent.
You say X is moral. I say X is immoral. If morality is subjective, we are both correct. But for you to say I am wrong about it being immoral, there has to be an objective morality. In that case, you would be making an argument that something is both moral and immoral at the same time. That's not logical. So morality has to be objective. But they will never concede that. It always devolves into insults ans smears from their end.
Posted on 2/23/24 at 11:27 am to ThuperThumpin
quote:
So where does an atheist believe these inherent rights come from? If they are subjective then they arent inherent.
The same argument can be placed on "rights by God"
Which God? Who determined what God said? Who wrote it down? Who interpreted it?
I believe a very small number of rights are inherent, mostly what would be considered as "human rights": life, liberty, etc.
I'm certainly not the arbiter of this. These are just my opinions.
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