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Message
Milling Lumber
Posted on 8/26/23 at 9:25 am
Posted on 8/26/23 at 9:25 am
Looking for some practical advise. We just bought a small lot on a COE lake and plan to build a 1200 foot or less house to retire in. The lot has about 25 - southern yellow pines anywhere from 18 - 36 inches in diameter and in the neighborhood of 70’ tall. Also several short needle pines from 12 - 18” in diameter, probably 40-50 feet tall. Also some sizeable sweet gums. I have a friend who clears land for a living who looked at it yesterday and he and several other people have told me there’s no market for the trees and it’s running $500-$700 per load to dump them, not counting fuel. My friend said 4-6 loads.
I am loosely familiar with milling lumber. I am considering milling those trees and using them for siding, trim, interior ship lap and flooring. Possibly even going through the grading process and using them structurally. They’d be air dried or possibly dried in a solar kiln. Most likely air dried. Even with lumber prices as high as they are lumber isn’t that expensive in relative terms when building. I know beyond a certainty that the framing package will be less than the effort required to mill that amount of lumber but I’m going to have to do something with it and hate to put it in a landfill. Is this impractical? I’ve got about 2-3 years before we start building, the lot is 20 minutes from the house and the zoning allows Rv camping…. So I could stay over 3 day weekends without a lot of trouble.
How long would it take to air dry SYP in the Deep South. For it to grade for structural use I read that green was 20% and above and dried was 20% and below. I know the general rule of thumb is a year per inch of thickness but I’ve also been told that’s was wayyyyyy off…..1” that SYP would be down to 20% in as little as 2 months and 2” in 6 months or so. That seems ridiculously fast. Any idea how long?
Finally I’m planning on wrapping the house in OSB for lateral support. Does siding used over OSB have to be grade stamped? It isn’t structural….the OSB is. You can put vinyl over OSB, it certainly isn’t structural? What about soffits and facia? It isn’t structural.
Any tips, advice or cautions greatly appreciated. I know it’s not cost effective but I like the idea LOL!
I am loosely familiar with milling lumber. I am considering milling those trees and using them for siding, trim, interior ship lap and flooring. Possibly even going through the grading process and using them structurally. They’d be air dried or possibly dried in a solar kiln. Most likely air dried. Even with lumber prices as high as they are lumber isn’t that expensive in relative terms when building. I know beyond a certainty that the framing package will be less than the effort required to mill that amount of lumber but I’m going to have to do something with it and hate to put it in a landfill. Is this impractical? I’ve got about 2-3 years before we start building, the lot is 20 minutes from the house and the zoning allows Rv camping…. So I could stay over 3 day weekends without a lot of trouble.
How long would it take to air dry SYP in the Deep South. For it to grade for structural use I read that green was 20% and above and dried was 20% and below. I know the general rule of thumb is a year per inch of thickness but I’ve also been told that’s was wayyyyyy off…..1” that SYP would be down to 20% in as little as 2 months and 2” in 6 months or so. That seems ridiculously fast. Any idea how long?
Finally I’m planning on wrapping the house in OSB for lateral support. Does siding used over OSB have to be grade stamped? It isn’t structural….the OSB is. You can put vinyl over OSB, it certainly isn’t structural? What about soffits and facia? It isn’t structural.
Any tips, advice or cautions greatly appreciated. I know it’s not cost effective but I like the idea LOL!
8
Posted on 8/26/23 at 9:39 am to AwgustaDawg
I thought pine had to be dried at a higher temp to set the sap, and even then it's going to come out over time. I have an older house and used a lot of whiteboard pine for the interior and trim to keep it looking old/country, and over the years knots will still bleed a bit and that's with a factory drying process.
On the other hand that's not structural and if you want the rustic look do you care if the knots bleed? I milled a bunch of live oak after Hurricane Michael and it wasn't cost effective at all but a few of those trees were 150 years old and it made me sick to lose them, so I get the desire to use your own wood.
ETA read too fast and missed that you were only talking about framing. Don't see why the sap would matter there.
On the other hand that's not structural and if you want the rustic look do you care if the knots bleed? I milled a bunch of live oak after Hurricane Michael and it wasn't cost effective at all but a few of those trees were 150 years old and it made me sick to lose them, so I get the desire to use your own wood.
ETA read too fast and missed that you were only talking about framing. Don't see why the sap would matter there.
This post was edited on 8/26/23 at 10:40 am
Posted on 8/26/23 at 11:04 am to AwgustaDawg
If I were in your shoes I'd contact someone with a portable sawmill. Most of these guys will cut your trees into dimensional lumber on 1/2's (you will have to fell and trim). The pine you are describing should be more than enough to cover your building in a couple of years.
He should be able to help you out with the drying process also.
As far as the gum trees go they don't even burn well and they will always fall in a storm.
He should be able to help you out with the drying process also.
As far as the gum trees go they don't even burn well and they will always fall in a storm.
Posted on 8/26/23 at 12:18 pm to AwgustaDawg
Just FYI, southern yellow pine is a common name for a few different species that can have some very different attributes, especially when it comes to the lumber. If your friend who clears land didn’t say otherwise then they are likely loblolly, at which point I’d say this experiment may not be worth the hassle. If you find they’re longleaf pines, then I’d be tempted to try it. That’s all I really got, air drying is gonna depend a lot on the size you cut down to and climate.
Posted on 8/26/23 at 1:46 pm to AwgustaDawg
If you have no experience with milling lumber I would recommend you leave your trees and purchase the lumber.
I recommend this from personal experience. I was going to do the same but found that after purchasing my mill and going through a lengthy learning curve, it would have been cheaper for me to have just purchased the lumber.
I just cut most of my mature gums. Found a small mill that was buying them for rail ties.
I recommend this from personal experience. I was going to do the same but found that after purchasing my mill and going through a lengthy learning curve, it would have been cheaper for me to have just purchased the lumber.
I just cut most of my mature gums. Found a small mill that was buying them for rail ties.
This post was edited on 8/26/23 at 1:47 pm
Posted on 8/26/23 at 2:18 pm to AwgustaDawg
quote:
there’s no market for the trees and it’s running $500-$700 per load to dump them, not counting fuel.
I would challenge this....or at least the wording of it.
Is he saying that they would cost that much to dump once you have them loaded? Or that much to cut them down and get them loaded on the truck?
Because once they're loaded on a truck they absolutely have value. If they're average common logs they're worth $35 a ton delivered to a sawmill. If they're old growth grade pine logs, then probably closer to $65 a ton. And that's fairly common from Southern Virginia to East Texas.
They're basically worth $1000 to as high as $2000 per load delivered depending on quality. Of course it might cost you that much to cut them down and haul them off.
And by "load" I mean a full 28 ton log truck load.
Posted on 8/26/23 at 4:26 pm to AwgustaDawg
I have been in framing lumber sales for 25 years. You will not come out ahead trying to cut it yourself! I have seen tooo many people try. Maybe for a barn but not a house.
First off it needs to be kiln dried with heat to kill any termites or any other insects.
You will also have a really hard time finding a framer/carpenter to be willing to work with rough cut lumber that is not cut to dimensions they are used to working with. The framing math formulas they know and use are based off perfectly cut nominal dimension lumber.
The couple customers that actually did end up using his own milled lumber only used it for the ceiling joist. The framers refused to use it for anything else.
First off it needs to be kiln dried with heat to kill any termites or any other insects.
You will also have a really hard time finding a framer/carpenter to be willing to work with rough cut lumber that is not cut to dimensions they are used to working with. The framing math formulas they know and use are based off perfectly cut nominal dimension lumber.
The couple customers that actually did end up using his own milled lumber only used it for the ceiling joist. The framers refused to use it for anything else.
Posted on 8/26/23 at 7:23 pm to AwgustaDawg
I have a mill and cut pine often.
It dries very fast, 4-6 weeks when properly spaced.
Are you planning to buy a mill or have someone mill for you?
It’s a lot of work but it means something when you’re done .
I bought mine with the sole purpose of building all of my personal stuff first .
Pole barn done and currently cutting for my shop then house.
Got a ways to go lol
It dries very fast, 4-6 weeks when properly spaced.
Are you planning to buy a mill or have someone mill for you?
It’s a lot of work but it means something when you’re done .
I bought mine with the sole purpose of building all of my personal stuff first .
Pole barn done and currently cutting for my shop then house.
Got a ways to go lol
Posted on 8/29/23 at 12:51 pm to AwgustaDawg
Update - I did a little math and that little lot has right at 14,000 board feet of loblolly pine, not to mention short leaf pines and sweetgums.
I talked to a co-worker whose son worked in a pallet mill just a short distance from the lot. The son told me that a local brick plant was paying from $15-$20 a piece for green tree pallets. I went by the brick plant this morning and confirmed and measured one they had on hand. a little under 15 board feet of lumber in each one. So green there were still squirrels living in the lumber. I also confirmed that they are currently paying $25 for pallets and will buy all I can bring them at whatever the price is when I bring them.
14,000 board feet, 15 BF a pallet and $15 a pallet is $14,000. With nails, gas and everything I ought to be able to double whatever it costs me, outside of labor, to turn those trees into pallets. I gotta get rid of them anyway so I am seriously considering doing it. If the price gets up to $25 a pallet Ima cut down all my new neighbors trees LOL. At $15 a pallet I can more than pay for a entry level mill and sell it when I am done.
I talked to a co-worker whose son worked in a pallet mill just a short distance from the lot. The son told me that a local brick plant was paying from $15-$20 a piece for green tree pallets. I went by the brick plant this morning and confirmed and measured one they had on hand. a little under 15 board feet of lumber in each one. So green there were still squirrels living in the lumber. I also confirmed that they are currently paying $25 for pallets and will buy all I can bring them at whatever the price is when I bring them.
14,000 board feet, 15 BF a pallet and $15 a pallet is $14,000. With nails, gas and everything I ought to be able to double whatever it costs me, outside of labor, to turn those trees into pallets. I gotta get rid of them anyway so I am seriously considering doing it. If the price gets up to $25 a pallet Ima cut down all my new neighbors trees LOL. At $15 a pallet I can more than pay for a entry level mill and sell it when I am done.
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