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Message
re: Ukraine Troops withdraw from Lysyschansk
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:24 pm to upgrayedd
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:24 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
don't find their justification in regards to NATO expansion unreasonable.
I don’t understand how anyone reaches the conclusion that the use of force to prevent sovereign nations from exercising their own foreign policy prerogatives is “reasonable”
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:29 pm to Indefatigable
6 pages based off a two month old tweet. This place used to be so much better around here.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:33 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
I have a feeling that most of this could have been avoided if Zelensky ceded that territory to Russia, but his ego, along with the prospect billions of dollars in international aid and weapons, got in the way of his realistic logic.
Unlikely, Russia wanted Ukraine in it's Sphere of influence. They'd finally extracted most of their frontline troops and equipment from Syria and if you look at Putin's past moves (Transniestra, Chechyna, South Ossetia/Abkhazia, Donetsk and Luhansk, Crimea, Syria, etc..) He's pretty much had his core army involved to capacity since he came to power, trying to restore the Soviet Empire (He doesn't even hide the fact that he wants to restore it).
He needed a land corridor to Crimea and Transniestra, and figured he'd just walk into Kyiv and they'd fold like a tent (I think most ppl figured they would too).
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:34 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
How dare Ukraine not just cede the region to Russia. Corruption and ego are the only possible explanations for why Ukraine didn’t just give up one of its core economic regions.
They hadn't occupied those territories for 7 years, there was absolutely no sign of them taking them back, and the people in those areas all wanted to be part of Russia.
My God, do any of you actually think about this rationally or do you just listen to what NBC tells you you're supposed to think? Grow up, Peter Pan.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:36 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
They hadn't occupied those territories for 7 years, there was absolutely no sign of them taking them back, and the people in those areas all wanted to be part of Russia.
So Russia and the separatists definitely only wanted the areas controlled by the DPR and LPR? Is that what you are saying?
quote:
My God, do any of you actually think about this rationally or do you just listen to what NBC tells you you're supposed to think? Grow up, Peter Pan.
You’re barking up the wrong tree with that. I’m as far as you’ll get from the automatic anti-Putin mouthpieces. Quite the opposite, I believe that there is no inherent reason why Russia and the US should be opposed geopolitically. It was a mistake to shun them in the early 2000’s.
That said, If you actually believe that Russia didn’t intend, from the beginning back in 2014, to eventually occupy the majority of Ukraine east of the Dnieper, you’re the one that needs to grow up. It has transparently been their goal for a long time.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:42 pm to Chazreinhold
That looks like a horse with a tongue sticking out.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:44 pm to Texaggie96
quote:
nlikely, Russia wanted Ukraine in it's Sphere of influence.
They were. The US overtly staged a coup that changed that dynamic.
quote:
e's pretty much had his core army involved to capacity since he came to power, trying to restore the Soviet Empire (He doesn't even hide the fact that he wants to restore it).
He'd like to restore it's power and perception of power, not recreate it with the same satellite countries that bankrupted it.
quote:
He needed a land corridor to Crimea and Transniestra, and figured he'd just walk into Kyiv and they'd fold like a tent (I think most ppl figured they would too).
You don't need to march to Kiev to do that.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:47 pm to Indefatigable
quote:
So Russia and the separatists definitely only wanted the areas controlled by the DPR and LPR? Is that what you are saying?
I'm saying ceding the territories that they're almost certainly never going to retake could have prevented escalation.
quote:
You’re barking up the wrong tree with that. I’m as far as you’ll get from the automatic anti-Putin mouthpieces. Quite the opposite, I believe that there is no inherent reason why Russia and the US should be opposed geopolitically. It was a mistake to shun them in the early 2000’s.
That said, If you actually believe that Russia didn’t intend, from the beginning back in 2014, to eventually occupy the majority of Ukraine east of the Dnieper, you’re the one that needs to grow up. It has transparently been their goal for a long time.
I think that's a delusional assumption
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:50 pm to LSUcdro
quote:
LSUcdro
Off topic-
Looking at your sig pic, are those your favorite bourbons?
Just opened up another bottle of Eagle Rare (great bourbon for the price IMO) and got my first bottle of Blanton’s (haven’t cracked it open yet) a couple of weeks ago. Finished a bottle of 4 Roses Small Batch a few months ago and found it to be meh.
I’m not entirely new to bourbon scene, but still trying to educate myself and my tastebuds.
What’s your go to? What do you suggest trying?
Sorry for derailing the topic. Guess I need to get on the F&D board.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 12:55 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
think that's a delusional assumption
Which part? They have already expanded their goals farther than DPR and LPR controlled areas, to include all of Donbas, and parts of Kharkiv, Zaporizhia, Kherson, Odessa and effectively Ukraine’s entire Black Sea coast. Exactly what about my assumption that they’ll eventually demand the whole eastern third of Ukraine is delusional? They transparently want to be able to navigate to Crimea and Transnistria using Russian soil.
quote:
I'm saying ceding the territories that they're almost certainly never going to retake could have prevented escalation.
Absolutely. For about 18 months until they identified another area with a Russian-speaking population that needs “protection”
Look, I don’t think the US or NATO should be involved at all. But it’s absurd to keep doubling down on the notion that Ukraine should be expected to not defend itself, or to just acquiesce to Russian territorial demands.
You obviously are not uninformed on the issues at play here. There is no way you believe that giving up the Donbas would have ended the situation.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 1:05 pm to sta4ever
quote:
Well I mean she just did something that China said if she does, it’ll start a war. I’m still waiting for the war. She was calling out the Chinese bluff, and prove that they won’t do shite, because they care too much about making money.
It's so cute that you think she and the CCP weren't all in on that gag together.
You're exactly the type of person she was targeting with that horseshite.
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 1:07 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 1:49 pm to sta4ever
She's been in politics 100 years, please list the good things she's done besides predicting the stock market..
Posted on 8/17/22 at 2:01 pm to LSUcdro
quote:
another 50 billys should take the town
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 2:02 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 2:06 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
He'd like to restore it's power and perception of power, not recreate it with the same satellite countries that bankrupted it.
You don't need to march to Kiev to do that.
Ther soviet union didn't go bankrupt due to satellite states. It went bankrupt due thi engaging in an arms race With the US and attempting to natch or foreign influence.
The Ukraine has a wealth of resources and farmland. it was probably the most profitable land by acre in the soviet empire.
As to why not just carve a path. Strategically they had limited forces in Crimea and Ukrainian units were already staged towards those fronts due to the annexation of Crimea and Donetsk and Luhansk. Couple that eith what had been a previously friendly government and the way the rolled towards Kiev in a column fashion, one would guess they figured kiev would just fold without a major battle. Obviously that never happened but if successful the war would have been over in days.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 2:10 pm to sta4ever
quote:It is absolutely what has caused this.
So you’re one of those that thinks the US is the one who created this conflict? No fault to Russia?
USA fomented and EVEN DIRECTED the Ukraine coup of 2014 and controlled them since
Now if Russia or, I dont know, China fomented coup and took over control of Cuba, Mexico, Canada or some Central American shithole...
this becomes a slam dunk answer to 'did the USA cause this?'
Now all of this presumes Americans in control of the USA too - which, frankly is not the case with Obama3 there now
This post was edited on 8/17/22 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 8/17/22 at 2:11 pm to sta4ever
quote:
Well then why were y’all complaining when Pelosi stood up to China, by going to Taiwan?
it is well known she went there for her husband's stick purchases of Nvidea. you are a fricking moron.
Posted on 8/17/22 at 2:14 pm to lowspark12
Russia didn’t do anything about Finland because they are in a shooting war at the moment. If in November of 2021 Finlands PM met with Biden and they announced hope for NATO membership; Finland would have been attacked.
NATO has been trying to unwind the deals made at the end of the Cold War for some time. Russia decided they had reached their breaking point.
NATO has been trying to unwind the deals made at the end of the Cold War for some time. Russia decided they had reached their breaking point.
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