It is "bad" in the sense that under no circumstances do Russia's preferences rightfully dictate the foreign policy decisions of sovereign nations. Other countries not doing what you want them to do is simply not lawful justification for military aggression.

Once again, Finland and Sweden deciding, in their own prerogative, to join NATO, is demonstrably not "provoking" anything. Throughout NATO's entire existence, not one single member has ever threatened Russia or Russian territory in any meaningful way.

It is a land and power grab by Moscow. Nothing more.

quote:
They signed a treaty of perpetual neutrality, which the USSR then respected, and Russia has as well.

And I am assuming you mean the treaty signed after Russian began yet another war of conquest with no legitimate basis and took Karelia from Finland?

This post was edited on 5/12/22 at 1:44 pm

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Posted by JAGuyHeh

Member since Aug 2021

179 posts

Posted on 5/12/22 at 1:47 pm to Indefatigable

quote:
It is "bad" in the sense that under no circumstances do Russia's preferences rightfully dictate the foreign policy decisions of sovereign nations. Other countries not doing what you want them to do is simply not lawful justification for military aggression.

Russia does not want thousands of miles of militarized borders, which is what exactly what would happen if Finland joined.

Finland historically was part of the Russian Empire, the Duchy of Finland.

When I said provoke, I meant the entire NATO expansion operation that the neocons have engineered for decades. NATO originally was not going to expand, but it did anyway. The elites in charge are dishonest at the very least.

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Posted by AggieHank86

Texas

Member since Sep 2013

42941 posts

Posted on 5/12/22 at 2:36 pm to Indefatigable

quote:
There is no need to provoke Russia. Russia has announced it wants Ukraine and Finland as well as other states to be neutral. Why is this bad?
quote:
It is "bad" in the sense that under no circumstances do Russia's preferences rightfully dictate the foreign policy decisions of sovereign nations .... Throughout NATO's entire existence, not one single member has ever threatened Russia or Russian territory in any meaningful way.

Russians are so paranoid that it might as well be a part of the national DNA. Whether justified or not, it is wise to keep that paranoia in mind when dealing with them.

Via Norway, NATO has had a border with Russia (well, the USSR) since its inception, but in the Russian collective mind an invasion across tundra does not present nearly the threat that an antagonistic Ukraine presents. Norway is an unpaved dirt pathway into Russia. Ukraine is an eight lane freeway. Finland has as much border, but is perhaps a two-lane, undivided highway by comparison.

At the same time, for decades Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia have represented an additional NATO presence on Russia's borders. From our perspective, the chance of a NATO invasion of Russia through the Baltic Republics is essentially "zero," but have no doubt that the Russian paranoia places a MUCH greater likelihood on such an invasion. They have been gnawing their rhetorical fingernails for twenty years or more.

None of which changes the RIGHTS at issue, but all of which is something for the West to keep in mind.

This post was edited on 5/12/22 at 2:43 pm

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Posted by xxTIMMYxx

Member since Aug 2019

17562 posts

Posted on 5/12/22 at 3:08 pm to Indefatigable

quote:
It is a land and power grab by Moscow. Nothing more

This is a load of shite. Russia is putting a stop to the poison the US is spreading. Russia walked right into our trap. We are responsible for everything happening there

This post was edited on 5/12/22 at 3:09 pm

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