I never said anything of the sort, so weird comment here. Just that if we are getting 4-5-6 players, we will wind up with a "carter" or two, but we really still need to find 3 really good players IMO. Carter is not one of those 3. So if he's a take, and we're taking say 5 from the portal, his list is narrowing quick of who he should be looking at for the other spots.

quote:
I don't think McMahon is not trying. LSU is just a tough sell right now. Certainly it's because of his performance to date. But you have to really get some momentum rolling to really attract the big time players.

I mean this just seems like a cop out. Either you're good or you're not. We cant possibly still be blaming things on the now completely settled NCAA matter. McMahon went 9-9 this year in the conference which looks better than last year so it's not like he's trying to sell some bottom feeder. There are cases literally everywhere of teams getting turned around in year 1 and 2 with new coaches. We cant still be making excuses for McMahon in year 3, its just BS at that point. If he was better recruiting high school players, he wouldnt be in this position of having to take so many guys from the portal and needing most of them to be very good players. If he simply recruited a little bit more and better from high school early on we wouldnt still need to be leaning so heavily on the portal still going into next year. I dont mind leaning on the portal, but you still have to go out and get the players. If you strike out too much in high school recruiting and also portal recruiting, you get non-torunament teams, bottom line.

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But to expect it's going to be 4 of the top 30 players or something like that is foolish.

Again, not sure where you keep getting stuff like this, but nobody expects him to land 4 Top 30 (out of ultimately what, 1k-2k) players. But his predicament is exactly what it is, he needs to get 3 VERY good players out the portal. Also the portal rankings are so laughably bad, and rightfully so because trying to rank this many players so quickly is a really tough task to do especially when they come from so many different levels (mid major vs. major) and classes (Fr. vs. super senior). If you look at on3 transfer rankings, McMahon landed 2 Top 30 players just this past season in Cook and Stewart. Now we can look back and laugh hilariously anyone who would rank Carlos Stewart in the Top 30 basketball transfers, but that goes to show who really cares about the portal rankings because they really dont have a great clue about a lot of those guys.

Could care less where exactly they are ranked, but they have to be able to an SEC starter and play a lot of minutes and play very well. That's just the position he's put himself in. The only starters on the team next season returning should be Ward and maybe 1 out of Reed or Williams. And that's assuming either Reed or Williams take that next step needed. So that tells me we need 3 really good players out the portal, bottom line. No excuses can be made there, he's made his bed for what he needs to be successful in year 3, gotta get it done in the portal now.

This post was edited on 3/27/24 at 10:33 am

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Posted by Alt26

Member since Mar 2010

28759 posts

Posted on 3/27/24 at 11:25 am to thunderbird1100

The suggestion seems to be that a guy like Carter shouldn't be a take because of his offensive numbers and that, instead, LSU needs to take only "really good" transfers. I'm saying a guy like Carter can be a nice piece...if he's not supposed to be the offensive centerpiece of your backcourt. Perhaps we are saying the same thing...just in a different manner.

quote:
I mean this just seems like a cop out. Either you're good or you're not. We cant possibly still be blaming things on the now completely settled NCAA matter. McMahon went 9-9 this year in the conference which looks better than last year so it's not like he's trying to sell some bottom feeder. There are cases literally everywhere of teams getting turned around in year 1 and 2 with new coaches. We cant still be making excuses for McMahon in year 3, its just BS at that point.

I'm not blaming it on NCAA investigations or anything of the sort. I'm saying that LSU isn't a prized destination right now because of their futility in the last two seasons. With those other first year HC's they could sell optimism and their performance at a previous job (which was likely very good...and why they got the bigger job in the first place). It's why McMahon, on paper, didn't have a "bad" first year signing/transfer class. Now, however, he can't sell what he did at Murray St. He has a record at LSU. And it isn't very good. The transfer players who are considered to be "very good" today likely won't be considering LSU. So to expect he will get some of those guys is probably unwarranted. What he has to do is find some good pieces that maybe aren't quite in that top tier of prospects that outplay their "rankings" so to speak.

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If he was better recruiting high school players, he wouldnt be in this position of having to take so many guys from the portal

While not top level, he hasn't been terrible in recruiting the HS ranks. He's going to have 5 top 100 players in 3 years. Wade had 6 in the same time frame. But the game has changed and coaches aren't relying on HS recruiting as much as they used to. Just look at Auburn. I think they've signed 5 HS players over the last 3 years. The reason is because the game has gotten "older". That is it is better to get multiple experienced 3, 4, 5 year players than HS freshman. One, because you can't teach experience, and two, because players move around, so you may not get much benefit from that HS signee if he only plays one season. I'm fine with the emphasis being more on transfers.

Ultimately, I'm more in the camp that the issue hasn't been as much one of a "lack of talent" as it is poor coaching. The running narrative is "good x's and o's coach" (Of course, no one can ever explain the basis for that opinion) but he just can't recruit. I disagree. I think his recruiting has been fine relative to teams like Florida, South Carolina, Mississippi St, A&M, etc. The coaching has been the bigger issue. I think McMahon will do a decent job bringing in players this offseason. I just have my doubts he'll actually be able to maximize their production.

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Posted by mcmaniacinsaneasylum

Baton Rouge

Member since Feb 2023

1983 posts

Posted on 3/27/24 at 12:04 pm to thunderbird1100

quote:
thunderbird1100

I think you're shitting on Carter a bit too much. Carter is a GOOD player. He is not, however, "the guy". He is not a Tari Eason or a KJ Williams. Undoubtedly, McMahon has grabbed good players out of the portal, like Wright. The issue- however, is the role, not the skill of the player. Jordan Wright was essentially a 3&D player at Vandy, mostly scoring from off ball catch and shoots. Then his role rapidly increased at LSU, where he becomes a ball dominant volume scorer.. and it led to mixed results.

I think you're projecting your distrust and disdain for McMahon on Carter. Carter is not a bad player, but he's not a star. He's not the guy. And no one should expect him to be.. I know we dogged on Jordan and Baker a lot of times but in their defense they should never have been given the keys to a team. They aren't those types of players and that's OK- every good team has quality role players. LSU suffered last year from the lack of having "the guy" (we hardly got to see Cook play even though that was his role) and I think we will see similar results UNLESS McMahon changes his coaching style or we get "the guy"

But back to Carter, I don't think he is a role player, either. You mentioned earlier playing 30-35 minutes or something like that. That's ridiculous, even for a star. Carter can play 25 minutes a game and be a quality player. He can start at the 2 and we can be a good team. He can be a key piece and we can be good, even if he's not "the guy". He just needs to play a smaller role. Don't conflate his ability with the prospect of McMahon turning him into Jordan Wright / Adam Miller 2.0.

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The only starters on the team next season returning should be Ward and maybe 1 out of Reed or Williams. And that's assuming either Reed or Williams take that next step needed.

I've thought about this for a while now and I'm calling it now- Mike Williams will be a better player than either Ward or Reed. Maybe not next year, but he has intangibles that both lack. He was a quality recruit by McMahon, but even then he won't be "the guy"... and it doesn't matter. As I previously said, you can be a key contributor without being "the guy".

Looking at the bigger picture of Williams season- he was playing out of position for a large portion, but still managed to be one of the best players on this team. Great defender, good shooter, decent finisher. I love his game and he's becoming one of my favorite players on this team. I love guys who play defense and have that dog in them.

This post was edited on 3/27/24 at 12:10 pm

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