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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:43 am to
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
866 posts
Posted on 5/8/24 at 4:43 am to
quote:

He is well aware of how the money for "Ukraine" is almost all going to revive US defense manufacturing plants gutted over the last 35 years by Democrat administrations.


Are you counting 35 non-consecutive years of Democratic administrations, here? With a carve-out for the Bush/Cheney terms?

Does past defense manufacturing all even still make sense?

Sure, Ukraine needs Howitzer rounds... when will the US ever need them if we don't send troops off somewhere to trench warfare again?

There's even a bit of a joke I remember, I think from the (great) book version of "World War Z": "The US military is always fully prepared and equipped... to fight the last war they were involved in!"

We tend to make big, expensive, sophisticated, costly-and-difficult-to-maintain weapons... and who will we be fighting in that fashion from here on out? We just fought protracted wars with enemies that had no Navy, Air Force, or defense budget... that did things like trigger explosives remotely with cell phones, or turn our own jetliners into bombs.

Of course, after that, there's going to be a re-think. Especially with the majority of the public dead set against direct troop involvement in anything at this point.

You guys posted some much-hyped American drone thing or something here that turned out to be a big disappointment and worthless in Ukraine... while Iranian Shahed "flying moped" drones and Ukrainians using cheap hobbyist drones with warheads attached to them, and naval drones made out of jetskis have done immeasurable damage.


I think our defense sector needs to swing into high gear, but they need to think outside of their usual box.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
9873 posts
Posted on 5/8/24 at 6:05 am to
quote:

Are you counting 35 non-consecutive years of Democratic administrations, here? With a carve-out for the Bush/Cheney terms?


Clinton Admin had a lot of defense plants shutdown and forced defense contractors to merge. We stopped making Stinger missiles in the mid 1990's

Obama admin had more defense plants shutdown.

The US was using stored artillery shells during Bush/Cheney.

The Reagan Admin had to spend a lot just to bring the military up to speed with spare parts. Pilots had problems getting enough flying time to keep their qualifications under Carter. Democrats cuts military to use on social programs. This has been the case under Carter, Clinton, Obama and the start of Biden. Worst case on defense capability under GOP is the maintain capabilities.

quote:

You guys posted some much-hyped American drone thing or something here that turned out to be a big disappointment and worthless in Ukraine... while Iranian Shahed "flying moped" drones and Ukrainians using cheap hobbyist drones with warheads attached to them, and naval drones made out of jetskis have done immeasurable damage.


I think that you were referring to Switchblade drones. These are short range frontline drones. We haven't heard much but Baltic nations ordered a bunch of them after 6 months use in Ukraine. FTR, Lancets have hit Bradleys and Abrams with little damage. A major issue for Abrams is that it was built for tank on tank combat which is a rarity in Ukraine.

Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
2559 posts
Posted on 5/8/24 at 6:49 am to
quote:

There's even a bit of a joke I remember, I think from the (great) book version of "World War Z": "The US military is always fully prepared and equipped... to fight the last war they were involved in!"

We tend to make big, expensive, sophisticated, costly-and-difficult-to-maintain weapons... and who will we be fighting in that fashion from here on out? We just fought protracted wars with enemies that had no Navy, Air Force, or defense budget... that did things like trigger explosives remotely with cell phones, or turn our own jetliners into bombs.

Of course, after that, there's going to be a re-think. Especially with the majority of the public dead set against direct troop involvement in anything at this point.


You've been mostly on point for the last few pages, good posts.

The Russia-Ukraine war will be studied for the next couple of decades until the next big war starts (hopefully its longer than that, could see it not even being that long unfortunately) and then by the time our military minds learn what there is to learn from the war it will be outdated at best or totally irrelevant because of new tech
Posted by Chromdome35
NW Arkansas
Member since Nov 2010
6898 posts
Posted on 5/8/24 at 6:52 am to
quote:

Sure, Ukraine needs Howitzer rounds... when will the US ever need them if we don't send troops off somewhere to trench warfare again?


Artillery is the king of the battlefield—always has been and always will be. The war in Ukraine has shown us that in a wide-scale war, The US does not have enough artillery ammo. The consumption rates are huge, and we would run out of it fairly quickly.

This is true for all war stocks, not just artillery. Our defense industrial base could not currently support our country in a long conventional war.

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