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Academic Rankings of the Universities involved in Conference Expansion

Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:16 pm
Posted by CrazyTigerFan
Member since Nov 2003
3554 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:16 pm
The rankings are taken from US News & World Report's 2012 rankings. The AAU membership was taken from the Association's own website.

PAC-12/14/16
1. Stanford (5) (AAU)
2. Cal-Berkley (21) (AAU)
3. Southern Cal (23) (AAU)
4. UCLA (25) (AAU)
5. Washington (42) (AAU)
6. Colorado (94) (AAU)
7. Oregon (101) (AAU)
8. Washington State (115)
9. Arizona (124) (AAU)
10. Utah (124)
11. Arizona State (132)
12. Oregon State (138)
13.
14.
15.
16.

SEC
1. Vanderbilt (17) (AAU)
2. Texas A&M (58) (AAU)
3. Florida (58) (AAU)
4. Georgia (62)
5. Alabama (75)
6. Auburn (82)
7. Tennessee (101)
8. South Carolina (111)
9. Kentucky (124)
10. Louisiana State (128)
11. Arkansas (132)
12. Mississippi (143)
13. Mississippi State (157)
14.
15.
16.

BIG-12/14/16
1. Northwestern (12) (AAU)
2. Michigan (28) (AAU)
3. Wisconsin (42) (AAU)
4. Penn State (45) (AAU)
5. Illinois (45) (AAU)
6. Ohio State (55) (AAU)
7. Purdue (62) (AAU)
8. Minnesota (68) (AAU)
9. Michigan State (71) (AAU)
10. Iowa (71) (AAU)
11. Indiana (75) (AAU)
12. Nebraska (101)
13.
14.
15.
16.

ACC
1. Duke (10) (AAU)
2. Virginia (25) (AAU)
3. Wake Forest (25)
4. North Carolina (29) (AAU)
5. Boston College (31)
6. Georgia Tech (36) (AAU)
7. Miami (38)
8. Maryland (55) (AAU)
9. Pittsburgh (58) (AAU)
10. Syracuse (62)
11. Clemson (68)
12. Virginia Tech (71)
13. Florida State (101)
14. NC State (101)
15.
16.

Big East / Big XII remnants
1. Texas (45) (AAU)
2. Connecticut (58)
3. Rutgers (68) (AAU)
4. Baylor (75)
5. Missouri (90) (AAU)
6. Iowa State (97) (AAU)
7. TCU (97)
9. Kansas (101) (AAU)
10. Oklahoma (101)
11. Oklahoma State (132)
12. Kansas State (143)
13. Texas Tech (160)
14. Louisville (164)
15. West Virginia (164)
16. South Florida (181)

Other teams of note
1. Rice (17) (AAU)
2. Notre Dame (19)
3. Tulane (50) (AAU)
4. SMU (62)
5. BYU (71)
6. Tulsa (75)
7. Buffalo (111) (AAU)
8. Colorado State (128)
9. Temple (132)
10. Nevada (181)
11. New Mexico (181)
12. South Florida (181)
13. East Carolina (194)
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 1:17 pm
Posted by CrazyTigerFan
Member since Nov 2003
3554 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:19 pm to
Special Consideration 1: Academics
There are some schools and/or conferences that prefer or require that their conference mates hold a minimum standard of academic success. The reasons for this are based in ECONOMICS. There is more money spent annually in research grants and academic endowments than there is in athletics, even with the new hyper-inflated spending that is spurring the forming of super conferences.

Some schools and conferences will still require any potential member schools to hold a high standard of academics. Schools with high academic standards will not want to be directly associated with schools with sub-par academic standards. It reflects negatively on schools with high academic standards to be associated in this way. The same holds true for conferences.

Of note:
- The B1G Conference wants their member universities to be members of the AAU. (Nebraska is the only current member of the B1G that is not currently a member of the AAU, but they were at the time they were admitted to the conference.)

- The B1G Conference universities plus the University of Chicago (an original member) share revenues and resources based in research and academics in an entity known as CIC. This entity provides greater financial benefits to member institutions annually than the Big Ten Network.

- The ACC and PAC-12/14/16 have stated that they prefer their member universities to have a high standard of academics, although they do not require membership in the AAU.

- The PAC is top-heavy, with the top five current member universities in the top 50 of the 2012 USN&WR rankings but with the bottom six current member universities tied with or ranked below the bottom universities of the ACC.

- The ACC only has six of the current fourteen member universities in the AAU, but has the best average member university ranking of the four potential super conferences. The B1G is second best, then the PAC, then the SEC (including Texas A&M).

- The only AAU member institutions potentially involved at this level of college football that are not currently affiliated with one of the super conferences are: Rice, Texas, Tulane, Rutgers, Missouri, Iowa State, Kansas, and Buffalo. If the B1G sticks by its desire for all member institutions to be AAU members, they can either attempt to select from the listed schools OR draw another school from one of the super conferences.
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 1:37 pm
Posted by CrazyTigerFan
Member since Nov 2003
3554 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 1:58 pm to
Special Consideration 2: Network Affiliation
Each conference has their own contracts with television networks and service providers concerning media distribution rights. Each conference can have different rules as to what member institutions are allowed to do in regards to distribution of media. Many of the rules regarding media content distribution, revenue sharing, and other media rights are relatively new developments and may not be fully understood.

Some conferences control most of the rights at every level, while others may control only top level rights and allow member institutions to distribute their lower level content. Some conferences require some or all of the revenue earned by these media rights to be shared, while others may not.

Network affiliation and media rights considerations are based on ECONOMICS. Conferences and member institutions attempt to create a framework through which the broadcast of their media rights provides the most money to member institutions. Some conferences favor plans that provide equal revenue sharing, while others favor plans that allow individual members to maximize their own profits without concern for all conference members or the conference as a whole.

Of note:
- The B1G Conference distributes member institute content by means of the B1G Network. The conference also has rights deals with the ESPN/ABC family of networks, and with Fox Sports for the football conference title game through 2016.

- The PAC-12/14/16 distributes member institute content by means of paired regional networks within the PAC-12 conference network. The conference also has rights deals with Fox Sports for regular season games, as well as with both ESPN/ABC and Fox Sports for the conference title game.

- The SEC distributes member institute content by means of the SEC Network (in affiliation with ESPN/ABC). The conference also has rights deals with CBS, ESPN/ABC, and Fox Sports, and with CBS for the conference title game.

- The ACC distributes member institute content by means of the ACC Network (in affiliation with ESPN/ABC). The conference also has rights deals with ESPN/ABC and with Fox Sports.

- The Big East distributes content by means of the Big East Network (in affiliation with ESPN/ABC). The Big XII distributes content by through Fox Sports and ESPN/ABC.

- Notre Dame is affiliated with NBC. Texas is affiliated with ESPN/ABC (through the Longhorn Network vehicle).

- The SEC, ACC, PAC, B1G, and Big East have equal revenue sharing plans amongst member institutions (to an extent).

- The Big XII does not have equal revenue sharing, with television rights being weighted in favor of those member institutions that are broadcast more frequently. (The PAC-12 had a similar setup when it was still the PAC-10.)
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 2:03 pm
Posted by KaiserSoze99
Member since Aug 2011
31669 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:03 pm to
Of all the conferences making moves (or potentially making moves) it appears the SEC is the only conference actually improving academic standards with new affiliation.

Academics arguments are kind of irrelevant anyway. Does anyone really believe the student-athletes deserve to go to their school from an academic standpoint?
Posted by CrazyTigerFan
Member since Nov 2003
3554 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:04 pm to
It's not irrelevant to those conferences that are concerned with it, it's about economics. It's about money. It all boils down to money.

ETA: I'm not sure what direction I want to go here. I started off just trying to point out the academic aspect, but the important point is that these conference affiliations are about economic gains. Things don't work in a vacuum... no conference can afford to stand still, or the landscape around them could change the entire economic equation.
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 2:07 pm
Posted by KaiserSoze99
Member since Aug 2011
31669 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:10 pm to
quote:

It's not irrelevant to those conferences that are concerned with it, it's about economics. It's about money. It all boils down to money.

ETA: I'm not sure what direction I want to go here. I started off just trying to point out the academic aspect, but the important point is that these conference affiliations are about economic gains. Things don't work in a vacuum... no conference can afford to stand still, or the landscape around them could change the entire economic equation.


I agree with everything you said. I was pointing out that I didn't think academics is relevant. Obviously the B1G is interested in academics because they said they were. But then again, they added Corn (last place in B1G in academics).

The gap between Nebraska and the next team is 26 spots on USNWR rankings. They went slumming, basically.
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 2:13 pm
Posted by Carlos Santannaclaus
Houston
Member since Jan 2008
3272 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:18 pm to
quote:


Academic Rankings


Nobody gives a good $%#$%$# what the academic rankings are, and anyone that says they do is a liar.

It's just another way to rationalize a move entirely based on $$$.
Posted by CrazyTigerFan
Member since Nov 2003
3554 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:21 pm to
The thing about Nebraska is that they have a lot of research and grant money, even with their (relatively) low ranking and losing their AAU standing. They can still make a valuable contribution to the CIC so that the other member institutions benefit as well.

To counter the importance (and, possibly also related, relevance) of that, though, so does a Texas, a Georgia, or even an LSU.

The telling thing to me was looking at what the ACC was able to do with the Pittsburgh and Syracuse additions (and in a quantifiable format). They strengthened the middle of the conference academically, added strength to their conference in basketball, and added strength to their conference in terms of football history (if not in terms of current powerhouses, which is so fluid when measured against five and ten year periods it's a laughable measuring stick anyway). They're the BEST academic conference in terms of rankings now (again, it's a snapshot in a fluid system, but it's worth noting), not the B1G (although they don't have as many AAU members and don't have a body like the CIC yet).

That's something I've been trying to explain to people, and why the point about academic-based economics is important and relevant... if the PAC, ACC, and B1G are all able to monetize academics in a way that benefits each member institution, the SEC (and its member institutions) will always be playing catch-up from that point. That's what Texas is talking about. That's why Vanderbilt is mentioned as a potential candidate for the ACC or B1G. That's why Kansas, Iowa State, Rutgers, Missouri, and even Tulane, Rice, and Buffalo have some value in these discussions.
Posted by CrazyTigerFan
Member since Nov 2003
3554 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:23 pm to
Can you perform and understand mathematics where time is a variable? If you can't, go educate yourself. If you can, stop and THINK for half a fricking second.
Posted by KaiserSoze99
Member since Aug 2011
31669 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:27 pm to
So it is about money, just not about the kind of money we think it is about, right?

Research $$$ v. Athletic $$$
Posted by CrazyTigerFan
Member since Nov 2003
3554 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:31 pm to
I think it's about both. It's all a scramble for power (and money), so why not maximize your revenue streams while minimizing your potential loss (as they relate to the competition, which is other conferences in this case), both academically and athletically.
Posted by wiltznucs
Apollo Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2005
9267 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:34 pm to
U.S. News Rankings are largely horseshite with a nonsensical weighting system which is severely skewed. The difference between the Top 15 is barely measurable. 15% of the ranking is based on peer evaluation of reputation and the opinion of high school guidance counselors? Who fricking cares what a guidance counselor says, and I challenge you to find a staff member at UF who speaks highly of FSU. Another 10% of the rank is established by philanthropic/graduate donations which puts schools located in major metropolitan areas particularly in the Northeast and West coast at a huge advantage.
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 2:36 pm
Posted by CrazyTigerFan
Member since Nov 2003
3554 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:36 pm to
It's just a metric. Pick your own and up the stats, we can make an average and then rank the schools from there.
Posted by Govt Tide
Member since Nov 2009
9539 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

It's not irrelevant to those conferences that are concerned with it, it's about economics. It's about money. It all boils down to money.


From an academic argument, the criteria for AAU membership is about as relevant and in touch with modern times as the NCAA rule book currently is. How anyone can convince me that Iowa State, Oregon, and Kansas were worthy of being AAU members 100 years ago while Georgia Tech didn't become worthy until last year tells you what a joke and what an elitist, racist good old boy club of Midwestern and Northeastern school administrators the AAU is.

Heck, UAB draws more federal research funding than quite a few of those long time AAU members but it will be a cold day in h### before they are even considered for membership.
Posted by Myshkin
Wanderlust
Member since Jul 2011
2868 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:52 pm to
Use AWRU
Posted by GumBro Jackson
Raleigh
Member since Mar 2011
3141 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 2:54 pm to
Great information CrazyTigerFan. Thanks for putting the time and effort in. I've been curious about these rankings.

Academics are obviously not the primary consideration in all this expansion business, but I really hope that the SEC doesn't take on a bunch of lower rated schools (like WVU or USF). That is why Texas A&M is such a nice get for us...good football tradition, strong fan base and very solid academics.

The AAU seems like such BS. How is it that schools like Arizona, Iowa State, Kansas, Buffalo, etc are deemed worthy, while schools like Georgia, Alabama and Auburn are not? (And Georgia Tech was only recently admitted).
This post was edited on 9/19/11 at 3:14 pm
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
36844 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 3:00 pm to
i think along with bringing in populous states into the SEC footprint and competitive athletics, its the number 1 issue.

People are way underestimating the polpulation of a state from the ability of a future SEC network to make money stand point. there is a reason the B1G network gets $.85 per subscriber in states with a current member and only $.15 for all others. This is a huge deal.


Same goes for acedemics. If a school cant bring in research dollars then what is the point of adding them? research dollars dwarf athletic dollars.


I look for the SEC to create a network similar to the B1G network sooner rather then latter and create a research sharing orginization similar to what the B1G has.

Its the best way to capitalize on everything. SEC will need to become creative in the digital/portable video field to really maximize the bottom line.
Posted by Govt Tide
Member since Nov 2009
9539 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 3:03 pm to
quote:

The AAU seems like such BS. How is it that schools like Arizona, Az State, Iowa State, Oregon State, Buffalo, etc are deemed worthy, while schools like Georgia, Alabama and Auburn are not? (And Georgia Tech was only recently admitted).


It's because the AAU has an extremely lame methodology on whether a school is worthy or not. You can basically kiss any hope of joining the AAU goodbye if you don't have a medical school tied directly to your school (why Alabama can't use its school of medicine and its $450 million in research funding which is technically under the UAB banner). Same with Georgia and Georgia Tech and the Medical College of Georgia. HUGE strike against those 3 schools. AAU also rewards large engineering graduate research programs which was barely enough to finally get Georgia Tech in due to their stellar engineering reputation. They also seem to now penalize schools with strong Agricultural research like Nebraska. Auburn, a very solid school that's every bit as good as several current AAU schools, would have to have engineering research at least on par or better than Georgia Tech to have any shot at AAU which is absurd.

Posted by GumBro Jackson
Raleigh
Member since Mar 2011
3141 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 3:08 pm to
quote:

It's because the AAU has an extremely lame methodology on whether a school is worthy or not. You can basically kiss any hope of joining the AAU goodbye if you don't have a medical school tied directly to your school (why Alabama can't use its school of medicine and its $450 million in research funding which is technically under the UAB banner). Same with Georgia and Georgia Tech and the Medical College of Georgia. HUGE strike against those 3 schools. AAU also rewards large engineering graduate research programs which was barely enough to finally get Georgia Tech in due to their stellar engineering reputation. They also seem to now penalize schools with strong Agricultural research like Nebraska. Auburn, a very solid school that's every bit as good as several current AAU schools, would have to have engineering research at least on par or better than Georgia Tech to have any shot at AAU which is absurd.


Thanks for the info. That really is a load of BS. I guess what is most annoying is that the AAU is kind of used as shorthand by some people for what is a "good" university, when AAU's focus is on a particular type of university which excludes many quality institutions.
Posted by Govt Tide
Member since Nov 2009
9539 posts
Posted on 9/19/11 at 3:23 pm to
quote:

Thanks for the info. That really is a load of BS. I guess what is most annoying is that the AAU is kind of used as shorthand by some people for what is a "good" university, when AAU's focus is on a particular type of university which excludes many quality institutions.


AAU is heavily skewed towards research universities with both large medical as well as engineering research programs. The fact that Alabama focuses more on the health of the Alabama "system" (UA, UAB, UAH) and has its flagship research programs split under 3 banners and no single university dominates in engineering research funding gaurantees they'll never make it. The same goes for Auburn. The AAU's methodology penalizes strong ag programs and although Auburn is very good across the board in engineering that doesn't make up for Auburn's lack of a medical school.

The fact that it took until last year before Georgia Tech got in and a very solid school like Georgia and a truly elite school like Notre Dame aren't in tells you all you need to know about how clueless the AAU is.
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