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re: Why would Jack Del Rio make a good college coach? Really?
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:36 pm to Tiger Phil
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:36 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
Look. He might be a good college football coach. But to say that he is undoubtedly the best "candidate" or would guarantee success at the collegiate level is not a conclusion at which can be reasonably arrived.
No coach is a guaranteed success on the collegiate level. Saban "might" fail if he were in different circumstances.
I don't believe anyone is arguing that hiring Del Rio guarantees success. You can arrive at the conclusion that he is "undoubtedly" the "best candidate", if by "arriving at a conclusion" means that one can rationally defend that he is the best candidate. If by "arriving at a conclusion" you mean that someone can "prove" that he is "undoubtedly" the best candidate, then no one can "arrive at the conclusion" that he is "undoubtedly" the best available candidate.
This post was edited on 1/12/10 at 1:38 pm
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Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:36 pm to Indiana Tiger
quote:
Just for the record, Carroll was a GA/assistant coach for a half dozen or so years before going pro.
That was almost 20 years ago for the record.
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:37 pm to Maximus
quote:
There are no real examples I can recall of a "pro-only, no college experience" coach that went to college and succeeded in a major way
how big of a pool of 7+ year nfl head coaches from the pro only genre is there?
Not sure where you're coming from.
I was struggling to come up with any coaches who have been from the NFL (with no real college experience) and then been successful in college
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:39 pm to OBUDan
quote:
They are small market with the threat of relocation. Not a lot of money to play with down there.
Keeping the Jaguars at or above .500 for seven years would be like keeping Miss St. at or above .500 in the SEC for seven years.
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:40 pm to Cash
quote:
Just for the record, Carroll was a GA/assistant coach for a half dozen or so years before going pro.
That was almost 20 years ago for the record.
If I remember his bio sketch his career started out in college, worked his way up to coordinator status over around 10 years... then went to the pros and worked his way up... stayed in the NFL for around 10 years as well?
Anyway, exact timeline doesn't matter IMO... the big point is probably that he had a significant amount of college football experience and understood the college game and the roles he would fill as head coach before starting at USC
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:41 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
He might be a good college football coach. But to say that he is undoubtedly the best "candidate" or would guarantee success at the collegiate level is not a conclusion at which can be reasonably arrived.
Every trend has to be bucked eventually. Pete Carrol already did that. Just because you have decided to focus all your attention on one factor of NFL to NCAA coaching moves doesn't make it the sole determining factor that will decide his success or failure. If that was true no one would even be considering him.
He was a NFL assistant coach.
He has experience at the pro level.
He has a winning record at a small market team that is struggling.
He has a big time name.
He has a little swagger to him that USC is looking for.
He is connected to USC.
NFL experience is huge. That's why most coaches now will go be assistants for NFL teams for a year or two, just for the experience.
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:41 pm to molsusports
quote:
In what way has money been a factor with the jags?
Support staff, facilities, money for assistants, scouting budget, etc.
The Pats have more resources than the Jags.
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:43 pm to molsusports
Here's the missing variable in the argument: What percentage of former college offensive or defensive coordinators have been "good" college head coaches?
Another variable: What percentage of head coaches have succeeded at one school only to be an abject failure as a head coach at another school?
If the Del Rio detractors are arguing that we don't know Del Rio would be an outstanding hire because few former NFL head coaches have subsequently failed as a college head coach, what about all of the former college head coaches who have failed? Does experience in college football and experience as a recruiter mean that a head coach is a guaranteed success?
Another variable: What percentage of head coaches have succeeded at one school only to be an abject failure as a head coach at another school?
If the Del Rio detractors are arguing that we don't know Del Rio would be an outstanding hire because few former NFL head coaches have subsequently failed as a college head coach, what about all of the former college head coaches who have failed? Does experience in college football and experience as a recruiter mean that a head coach is a guaranteed success?
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:43 pm to Cash
quote:
Keeping the Jaguars at or above .500 for seven years would be like keeping Miss St. at or above .500 in the SEC for seven years.
Why? Unless they are run by Al Davis or have an incompetent GM most teams will be around .500 over any length of time... league is parity driven and designed to help teams when they are down
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:45 pm to OBUDan
quote:
They are small market with the threat of relocation. Not a lot of money to play with down there.
I don't think NFL finances work the way you think they do.
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:47 pm to Cash
quote:
Support staff, facilities, money for assistants, scouting budget, etc.
The Pats have more resources than the Jags.
I'm not overwhelmed with this argument.
It seems to me that (other than the QB position perhaps which Del Rio appears to control) they make decent personnel decisions. For a while the word was no one really liked playing the Jags because they had a bunch of just big physical guys that beat you up when you played them (win or lose)
Pats have been highly successful and are a model for how to run a franchise tho... agree on that idea
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:49 pm to molsusports
Coming in and recruiting at USC after Pete Carrol set up the program is not going to be the most difficult thing in the world provided they avoid sanctions. Ask yourself, would I go play for Jack Del Rio at USC. I would. He has pro contacts, and knows what it takes to get into the NFL plus its still Hollywood.
His NFL record is very average but he does have to play the Colts 2 times a year and If you watch those games then you know the Jags always come so close to beating them. Plus, his defenses are usually pretty decent and he his type of offense is what I think works in college.
I cannot possibly prove he would be a good college coach but my gut tells me he will be. I bet he wins a few conference titles and a few Rose bowl games, but I'll hold off on National Title predictions.
His NFL record is very average but he does have to play the Colts 2 times a year and If you watch those games then you know the Jags always come so close to beating them. Plus, his defenses are usually pretty decent and he his type of offense is what I think works in college.
I cannot possibly prove he would be a good college coach but my gut tells me he will be. I bet he wins a few conference titles and a few Rose bowl games, but I'll hold off on National Title predictions.
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:51 pm to tuptiger
quote:
If the Del Rio detractors are arguing that we don't know Del Rio would be an outstanding hire because few former NFL head coaches have subsequently failed as a college head coach, what about all of the former college head coaches who have failed? Does experience in college football and experience as a recruiter mean that a head coach is a guaranteed success?
I don't mean to position myself as a Del Rio detractor if that's how anyone takes it.
I would just say the more you look and read the more striking it seems that college coaches who are extremely successful all seem to have had college experience prior to being college head coaches.
I'm sure the right NFL guy could come along and reverse that if he were smart and humble enough to learn what he didn't know about the things he needed to do as college head coach
I just think college experience appears to be a highly valuable item on your resume if you are a candidate
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:52 pm to molsusports
quote:
I'm not overwhelmed with this argument.
No offense, but your ability to ignore certain arguments and emphasise other arguments is uncanny. If you are unwilling to accept anyone else's argument or opinion then you are being closed minded and simply stating your opinon drawn from your own facts and should not have asked the question in the first place. Just saying.
Molsusports opinion = JDR will not be a good college coach. Opinion noted.
Posted on 1/12/10 at 1:59 pm to molsusports
quote:
In what way has money been a factor with the jags?
Just curious what you're driving at... my initial reaction is with a salary cap it's not about the money for players it's about player evaluation and coaching
Well, they play in a small market so it's tougher to lure big time stars - there's a reason most of the big time free agents end up in NY, Dallas, Cali etc.
That said, their drafting has been average as well. Reggie Nelson and Quentin Groves have both disappointed, but Groves appears to be out of position.
Posted on 1/12/10 at 2:02 pm to Indiana Tiger
quote:
I don't think NFL finances work the way you think they do.
How so?
Obviously there is a salary cap that limits roster signings etc. but as Cash mentioned, you still need plenty of money for stadium upgrades, coaching hires, facilities etc. etc. etc.
Posted on 1/12/10 at 2:04 pm to Suntiger
quote:
Molsusports opinion = JDR will not be a good college coach
I never even said that
The thread asked a good question and I agreed that it's a good question. It drives me nuts when people never even stop to consider whether a guy with no college experience makes sense at the college level tho.
As I've already said... a good NFL coach could be successful in college but it's fairly impressive that there are no good examples of NFL only coaches being successful at the college level.
So I think it's fair to at least wonder if NFL only guys are going to be at a disadvantage coming into a college environment when they don't know the ropes
Posted on 1/12/10 at 2:08 pm to molsusports
quote:
a good NFL coach could be successful in college but it's fairly impressive that there are no good examples of NFL only coaches being successful at the college level.
Well, there's only a test case of about 5 of them...
Posted on 1/12/10 at 2:13 pm to molsusports
quote:
Not sure where you're coming from.
I was struggling to come up with any coaches who have been from the NFL (with no real college experience) and then been successful in college
can you not read? How many of those unsuccessful all-NFL dummies that couldn't step up to the BIG LEAGUES of NCAA were head coaches who were able to retain the same job for 7+ years or were NFL head coaches for an exteneded period of time at all?
Posted on 1/12/10 at 2:15 pm to OBUDan
In part IMO because the NFL guys are leery of going into a situation they don't know how to handle
As the money is improving in college tho? I think people will decide to jump in and try anyway... money is getting too good to pass up
As the money is improving in college tho? I think people will decide to jump in and try anyway... money is getting too good to pass up
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