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Who cares if Patterson developed the TCU scheme?
Posted on 11/17/08 at 10:55 pm
Posted on 11/17/08 at 10:55 pm
Muschamp didn't develop the scheme he is running.
Doesn't matter if the coach wrote the textbook, all he needs to do is be able to teach it with a level of competency that will improve LSU's defense.
Obviously, Mallory hasn't been able to do that with Pelini's packages.
Doesn't matter if the coach wrote the textbook, all he needs to do is be able to teach it with a level of competency that will improve LSU's defense.
Obviously, Mallory hasn't been able to do that with Pelini's packages.
2
Posted on 11/18/08 at 1:36 am to Hodson 4Heisman
Unfortunately, his textbook only reads pages 4-2-5 which translates to: shite-shite-shite against major competition.
Seriously though, the 4-2-5 and the 3-3-5 are schemes used to disguise lack of overall athleticism.... they don't highlight player's skills.
Seriously though, the 4-2-5 and the 3-3-5 are schemes used to disguise lack of overall athleticism.... they don't highlight player's skills.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 2:10 am to OBUDan
quote:
Unfortunately, his textbook only reads pages 4-2-5 which translates to: shite-shite-shite against major competition.
I'll laugh at you just like I laughed at SFP for saying a 4-2-5 is a bad idea.
We're facing more and more spread teams now than ever and a base 4-2-5 defense wouldn't be a terrible idea. Not only that, but (gasp!) you mean we'd run a defense that actually played to our STRENGTHS?
All the change would be is essentially Kelvin Sheppard sits and Chad Jones is a starter. I'd be all freaking for that.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 7:20 am to thunderbird1100
quote:
I laughed at SFP for saying a 4-2-5 is a bad idea.
i didn't say it was a bad idea
i said that fans don't realize that this is a completely different philosophy and not one we've recruited for
Posted on 11/18/08 at 8:36 am to SlowFlowPro
We have the talent and bodies to run it now.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 8:51 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i said that fans don't realize that this is a completely different philosophy and not one we've recruited for
After watching TCU for a few weeks on defense, I'd equate a 4-2-5 defense at LSU to how RR is running the spread at UM right now. (Not good) It takes a diffrent kind of DE and diffrent kind of LBer than the ones we've got and the DT are almost after thougts and our DT are better than that.
BTW, I don't remember 4-2-5 stopping the spread. They lost to BYU and lost to Air Force last year
Other 4-2-5 schemes.
quote:
New defensive coordinator Ellis Johnson has implemented a 4-2-5 scheme and his unit is ranked 10th in the FBS in scoring defense (15.6 ppg).
LINK This was about USCeast's D trying to stop UF and we see how that worked out.
UM's 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 defense How great has Michigan's D been this year?
Besides, I think the only SEC team running the spread is Florida. Auburn is trying, but they look more traditional. All our other competition runs pro formations.
Also, Bo Pelini tried a 3-3-5 type defense against the spread and it never really worked either.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 10:15 am to Suntiger
quote:
I'd equate a 4-2-5 defense at LSU to how RR is running the spread at UM right now. (Not good)
That is B.S.. RR implementing the spread right now at Michigan would be like Frank Solich implementing it at Nebraska after the Tom Osborne years. He hasn't had a chance to recruit the type of players to run that type of offense yet. Michigan was your typical power football team, not a spread offense. Give him a couple of years to get the recruits.
quote:
BTW, I don't remember 4-2-5 stopping the spread.They lost to BYU and lost to Air Force last year
If I remember correctly,Air Force runs the wing-t. They beat the great "air it out" offense of BYU this year 32-7. They beat Oklahoma in 2005 17-10 (held Adrian Peterson and the OU offense to 97 yards rushing and 128 yards passing).
They currently are ranked #1 in total defense, #1 in rushing defense, #8 in passing defense, and # 3 in scoring defense.
quote:
LINK This was about USCeast's D trying to stop UF and we see how that worked out.
Completely irrelevant. UF has been hanging half a hundred on everyone, including us.
quote:
UM's 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 defense How great has Michigan's D been this year?
Same thing as the Michigan offense. They do not have the players to run that type of defense right now. They have big, bulky defensive lineman and non-athletic linebackers. They do not have the athleticism and agility to run that type of defense correctly.
The 4-2-5 is very similar to the 4-3 defense. Chad Jones or a Danny McCray (shutters) would be one of your 5 defensive backs. They could basically walk up to the line and fill in for an outside linebacker.
It is a good and proven scheme. I disagree with you on your statement saying that we do not have the players to run it. I think we could implement it this week and we'd be able to run it/shut down Ole Miss by Saturday. Hey, the way our defense is looking this season, anything is an improvement.
This post was edited on 11/18/08 at 10:15 am
Posted on 11/18/08 at 10:21 am to OBUDan
quote:Dan, who's to say he'd run a 4-2-5 here? A good DC runs a D that best suites his players. Ron Rivera ran a Cover 2 in Chigago and is running a 3-4 in San Diego.
Seriously though, the 4-2-5 and the 3-3-5 are schemes used to disguise lack of overall athleticism.... they don't highlight player's skills.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 11:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i said that fans don't realize that this is a completely different philosophy and not one we've recruited for
Are you kidding? It would play exactly to our strengths.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 11:13 am to Suntiger
quote:
After watching TCU for a few weeks on defense, I'd equate a 4-2-5 defense at LSU to how RR is running the spread at UM right now. (Not good) It takes a diffrent kind of DE and diffrent kind of LBer than the ones we've got and the DT are almost after thougts and our DT are better than that.
BTW, I don't remember 4-2-5 stopping the spread. They lost to BYU and lost to Air Force last year
I hope you're joking. TCU has one of the best defenses in the country. They have the #1 total defense, #3 scoring defense, #8 pass efficiency defense, #1 run defense and are #1 in sacks in the nation. They've held 7 of their 11 opponents to 7 points or less. They've held 10 of their 11 opponents to 14 points or less. They've held everyone but Oklahoma to under 300 yards of offense. They held Oklahoma to their lowest point output of the season (tied with Texas) and was 1 yard away from holding them to their lowest total offense output of the entire season.
We have the athletes to run a 4-2-5 (more-so than a 4-3) and it certainly wouldn't kill us playing as many spread type teams as we do coming out in that as our base defense.
P.S. TCU destroyed BYU 32-7. They held BYU to by far their lowest points and yards all year. TCU held Utah to 13 points and 275 yards which is tied for their lowest and 2nd lowest outputs of the year respectively.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 12:28 pm to Suntiger
quote:
Other 4-2-5 schemes.
quote:
New defensive coordinator Ellis Johnson has implemented a 4-2-5 scheme and his unit is ranked 10th in the FBS in scoring defense (15.6 ppg).
LINK This was about USCeast's D trying to stop UF and we see how that worked out.
UM's 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 defense How great has Michigan's D been this year?
Besides, I think the only SEC team running the spread is Florida. Auburn is trying, but they look more traditional. All our other competition runs pro formations.
Also, Bo Pelini tried a 3-3-5 type defense against the spread and it never really worked either.
Pretty much exactly what I said. The 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 defenses have never worked on a large scale college scene. They are designed entirely to mask lack of athleticism. They don't highlight our strengths at all. They make them disappear. We would become shockingly shitacular if that change went down.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 12:32 pm to Acreboy
quote:
Dan, who's to say he'd run a 4-2-5 here? A good DC runs a D that best suites his players. Ron Rivera ran a Cover 2 in Chigago and is running a 3-4 in San Diego.
We could operate on that assumption.
But I think there's more than enough cause for concern considering:
A) Patterson actually runs that D and it's been good for a quite a while before Bumpass
B) It's the only scheme he's ever coordinated largely... so asking him to switch philosophies is risky at best.
C) NFL is a different ball game. Just because one guy can do it... doesn't mean any "good DC" could do it. Good example would be Pelini at OU. He was shite awful because he doesn't do the zone coverages and blitzes that the Stoops brother's have mastered.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 1:03 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Pretty much exactly what I said. The 4-2-5 and 3-3-5 defenses have never worked on a large scale college scene. They are designed entirely to mask lack of athleticism. They don't highlight our strengths at all. They make them disappear. We would become shockingly shitacular if that change went down.
This post is so completely far off from the truth it hurts to laugh at it.
Posted on 11/18/08 at 2:16 pm to Stamps
quote:
If I remember correctly,Air Force runs the wing-t. They beat the great "air it out" offense of BYU this year 32-7.
That was this year. I'm trying to bring some historical perspective to the conversation.
quote:
That is B.S.. RR implementing the spread right now at Michigan would be like Frank Solich implementing it at Nebraska after the Tom Osborne years. He hasn't had a chance to recruit the type of players to run that type of offense yet. Michigan was your typical power football team, not a spread offense. Give him a couple of years to get the recruits.
Are you sayint that UM didn't have defensive talent? They have defensive talent all over the place, just not the type of guys you run the 4-2-5 with.
quote:
They do not have the players to run that type of defense right now. They have big, bulky defensive lineman and non-athletic linebackers. They do not have the athleticism and agility to run that type of defense correctly.
WTF??? They have the same type of players we have, except maybe better linebackers. TCU's DT's are 6-3 282, 6-2 250 and 6-2 232 they've got a 5-10 270 lbs DT for pete sake. Only one of those sound like one of our DT's. The DE's are small and quick. Our's our built for the run and only Alem has been a speed rusher this year.
quote:
The 4-2-5 is very similar to the 4-3 defense. Chad Jones or a Danny McCray (shutters) would be one of your 5 defensive backs. They could basically walk up to the line and fill in for an outside linebacker.
That's called nickle and is not what TCU runs. Watch them play. It's not the same as CJ playing the nickle back spot.
ETA: This still doesn't address the fact that it's Patterson's defense.
This post was edited on 11/18/08 at 2:18 pm
Posted on 11/20/08 at 2:12 pm to Suntiger
[
This post was edited on 11/19/12 at 12:51 pm
Posted on 11/20/08 at 3:40 pm to Hodson 4Heisman
quote:
Doesn't matter if the coach wrote the textbook, all he needs to do is be able to teach it with a level of competency that will improve LSU's defense.
so we wing it with another person running someone else's defense? Sounds awesome.
Posted on 11/20/08 at 4:02 pm to Maximus
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/19/12 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 11/20/08 at 4:27 pm to Bleeding purple
Bumpas could be great on his own with this defense, but the point is we have no idea. There is no need to risk it on another semi-unknown when we have the money, talent, prestige etc to get damn near any DC around.
Posted on 11/20/08 at 4:31 pm to Maximus
(no message)
This post was edited on 11/19/12 at 12:53 pm
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