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The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self

Posted on 12/16/21 at 9:51 pm
Posted by Tyger32
Member since Dec 2015
443 posts
Posted on 12/16/21 at 9:51 pm
By Carl Trueman.
Have any of you read it? What were your thoughts?
I'm 80 pages in...very interesting.
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37295 posts
Posted on 12/16/21 at 10:41 pm to
Reading it as well.

It's brilliant. Trueman does a great job of making a lot of complexity in modern life seem easy to understand. It's also a bit scary, but thems the breaks.
Posted by Tyger32
Member since Dec 2015
443 posts
Posted on 12/17/21 at 8:06 am to
The discussion of the three worlds is very good...the first two depending upon transcendence, while the third world justifies itself on the basis of its self...which makes it very unstable.
"Whereas in the first and second worlds, intellectuals and institutions such as universities were the conduits for the transmission and preservation of culture, now the intellectual class is devoted to the opposite--to the subversion, destabilization, and destruction of the culture's traditions." (88)
Everything has been flipped upside down.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18945 posts
Posted on 12/17/21 at 9:20 pm to
Man, I really like Trueman. He’s such a great example of what a Protestant should look like. Seriously.

I’ll check this out over the break.
Posted by Tyger32
Member since Dec 2015
443 posts
Posted on 12/20/21 at 9:59 am to
To follow Rousseau is to make identity psychological. To follow Freud is to make psychology, and thus identity, sexual. To mesh this combination with Marx is to make identity--and therefore sex--political. (250)
Posted by Freauxzen
Utah
Member since Feb 2006
37295 posts
Posted on 12/20/21 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

To follow Rousseau is to make identity psychological. To follow Freud is to make psychology, and thus identity, sexual. To mesh this combination with Marx is to make identity--and therefore sex--political. (250)



Ding ding ding

He nailed that sequence.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18945 posts
Posted on 12/29/21 at 9:01 am to
For what it's worth, Trueman narrates the audio book!
I'm getting this tomorrow with my monthly credit. Can't wait.

Usually buy the book to and follow along.
Posted by Tyger32
Member since Dec 2015
443 posts
Posted on 12/29/21 at 12:01 pm to
Awesome. I'm taking some classes through Founder's Ministry. Trueman is teaching a class this summer that I'll take.

The Rise and Triumph of the Ancient Ethic: Biblical Ethics in the Modern World
Posted by Tyger32
Member since Dec 2015
443 posts
Posted on 12/29/21 at 12:04 pm to
Also, just finished writing a summary on this book..just wow. Really impressed. You will enjoy it. Lots of things stood out, but Reiff's concepts of the 'three worlds' and 'deathworks' were interesting.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18945 posts
Posted on 12/29/21 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

You will enjoy it.
I think I will

Why not post your summary?
Posted by Tyger32
Member since Dec 2015
443 posts
Posted on 12/29/21 at 1:22 pm to
If I get back to my computer I might...
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18945 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 5:53 pm to
Pages 46-49 wow, wow, wow.
This post was edited on 1/1/22 at 5:57 pm
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18945 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 10:20 pm to
quote:

It's brilliant. Trueman does a great job of making a lot of complexity in modern life seem easy to understand.
It’s uncanny. It really is stunning how good he is at explaining our societal struggles.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18945 posts
Posted on 1/1/22 at 10:22 pm to
quote:

The discussion of the three worlds is very good...the first two depending upon transcendence, while the third world justifies itself on the basis of its self...which makes it very unstable.
I just read this part. It explains so very very much. Trueman, so far, literally deserves a Nobel peace prize.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18945 posts
Posted on 1/4/22 at 7:34 am to
A bit more on this book:

In The Rise of the Modern Self, Carl Trueman makes heavy use of Charles Taylor (A Secular Age) and Philip Rieff (The Triumph of the Therapeutic) to explain how we went from somewhat normal to now, in just twenty years.
Yes, I know the world wasn't perfect two or three decades ago (some here will disagree ), but the West was much saner then on a grand scale.

First we have an article that summarizes Rieff's contribution, then I've included a bit from Trueman's book:

quote:

“Where there is nothing sacred, there is nothing” (Deathworks, 12).

quote:

Rieff indicts an array of cultural elites—but especially Freud, Joyce, Picasso, and Mapplethorpe—for their role in poisoning society. “The guiding elites of our third world,” he observes, “are virtuosi of de-creation, of fictions where once commanding truths were”
This continues into the present of course...
quote:

Of course, the attempt to construct a religionless society is as absurd as the attempt to reach God with a physical tower. As Reiff notes, “Culture and sacred order are inseparable. . . . No culture has ever preserved itself where there is not a registration of sacred order”

quote:

The third-world perspective abolishes truth, leaving only desire. Yet desire proves to be as fierce an authority as any god—and jealous to boot...So the throne on which God once sat doesn’t remain empty; it’s simply filled with the more erratic god of desire.

quote:

The chief desire in our American third-world culture is sexual, and this desire demands freedom of exercise. You may believe or disbelieve in the existence of God, but you must never question the dogma of absolute sexual freedom, nor restrict its public exercise.
...Enter all things LGBTQ+

Full Article

For a more comprehensive treatment of the state of our modern world, with a heavy focus on historical background,
I highly recommend The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self.
This book is so good and so true, I'm surprised we're able to read it.
I thought the section on Deathworks, credited to Rieff's 2006 work, was astonishing. I'll add pics.





Posted by Pettifogger
Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
Member since Feb 2012
79234 posts
Posted on 1/13/22 at 3:10 pm to
I haven't read this because I'm pretty sure it's lurking in an unopened Christmas gift I haven't received, but I heard CT speak on it.

CT also has his lecturers on the Reformation available on Apple Podcasts, if anyone enjoys his style and narration.
Posted by Nguyener
Kame House
Member since Mar 2013
20603 posts
Posted on 1/23/22 at 12:07 pm to
Just got my copy yesterday. Very excited to start it.

Bought a new highlighter and page markers just for the book
This post was edited on 1/24/22 at 9:51 am
Posted by Kvothe
Member since Sep 2016
2020 posts
Posted on 2/13/22 at 3:58 pm to
I bought this book today after coming across this thread a few weeks ago and randomly thinking about what I read. I just got through the intro and have to put it down to Super Bowl, but I can’t wait to dive in after the game.

I look forward to discussing as I get through it, as I was born and raised in the Catholic Church, but grew distant from it due to what I consider it’s constricting nature. I think this puts me in a position to have an open mind for both sides and am curious to see which way I lean after getting through it.

Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18945 posts
Posted on 2/15/22 at 5:46 pm to
I look forward to reading about that. I’m 80% into the book.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
18945 posts
Posted on 2/15/22 at 8:25 pm to
Wow. I can clearly see that this article belongs here.
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