- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
glenn327
| Favorite team: | Michigan  |
| Location: | |
| Biography: | |
| Interests: | |
| Occupation: | |
| Number of Posts: | 37 |
| Registered on: | 10/19/2007 |
| Online Status: |
Recent Posts
Message
re: UM's "request to speak" before Champ game classless?
Posted by glenn327 on 11/30/07 at 10:24 am to SanFranTiger
It was LSUs AD who chose to make an announcement to the press-it is strictly his fault if the request to speak to Miles (which is a courtesy on Michigan's part) causes LSU to be less focussed for the game.
Our AD has conducted this search very honorably.
1
I guess you guys are angry that your school is being used (again) as a stepping stone to something better.
The Big Ten in general (and the University of Iowa in particular) have also been used as stepping stones-several of our University presidents have gone on to be presidents in the Ivy League. Iowa's AD recently took the job as AD at Stanford. Iowa's former president (Mary Sue Coleman) is now president at Michigan.
It is part of life-each of us has a position in the food chain. All you can do is work hard and move up that food chain.
The Big Ten in general (and the University of Iowa in particular) have also been used as stepping stones-several of our University presidents have gone on to be presidents in the Ivy League. Iowa's AD recently took the job as AD at Stanford. Iowa's former president (Mary Sue Coleman) is now president at Michigan.
It is part of life-each of us has a position in the food chain. All you can do is work hard and move up that food chain.
and here are the W-L records for the last ten years (from Stratten)
Rank Team name Winning Percentage
1 Texas 0.77778
2t Boise State 0.77600
2t Ohio State 0.77600
4 Michigan 0.77419
5 Miami-Florida 0.76423
6 Georgia 0.76190
7 Florida State 0.75591
8 Virginia Tech 0.75397
9t Florida 0.74603
9t Tennessee 0.74603
17 Louisiana State 0.69355
Rank Team name Winning Percentage
1 Texas 0.77778
2t Boise State 0.77600
2t Ohio State 0.77600
4 Michigan 0.77419
5 Miami-Florida 0.76423
6 Georgia 0.76190
7 Florida State 0.75591
8 Virginia Tech 0.75397
9t Florida 0.74603
9t Tennessee 0.74603
17 Louisiana State 0.69355
you guys are delusional if you think LSU compares with Michigan as a coaching opportunity.
Five coaches have named Michigan as a top (or THE top) coaching position in America: Holtz, Miles, Meyer, Fulmer, and Gruden.
Can you name EVEN ONE who named LSU (and was not then seeking that job)?
Michigan has NEVER lost a coach to another school.
Michigan has NEVER lost a coach to the NFL
some of the evidence cited above to support the assertion that LSU is comparable to Michigan, is just plain wrong:
Number of former players in the NFL All-time roster lists are here: LINK LSU has 244 players who played one or more seasons in the NFL. Michigan has 305. Michigan has 6 NFL hall of famers, LSU has 3. Latest (2006) rosters show 36 players who attended LSU, and 42 who attended Michigan. (source: LINK ).
Five coaches have named Michigan as a top (or THE top) coaching position in America: Holtz, Miles, Meyer, Fulmer, and Gruden.
Can you name EVEN ONE who named LSU (and was not then seeking that job)?
Michigan has NEVER lost a coach to another school.
Michigan has NEVER lost a coach to the NFL
some of the evidence cited above to support the assertion that LSU is comparable to Michigan, is just plain wrong:
Number of former players in the NFL All-time roster lists are here: LINK LSU has 244 players who played one or more seasons in the NFL. Michigan has 305. Michigan has 6 NFL hall of famers, LSU has 3. Latest (2006) rosters show 36 players who attended LSU, and 42 who attended Michigan. (source: LINK ).
Michigan fans (and presumably Michigan staff) have had their eyes on Les Miles since his second year at OSU.
as an outsider (UM fan), I would think you guys have the pull to bring in an established HC. To me-the job of HC is VERY different from that of coordinator.
A lot is it is schmoozing with the boosters, 'closing' on the recruiting trail, representing the university. This last item is why I personally DO NOt think Les Miles will get the Michigan job, but plenty of Michigan fans disagree with me on this.
as an outsider (UM fan), I would think you guys have the pull to bring in an established HC. To me-the job of HC is VERY different from that of coordinator.
A lot is it is schmoozing with the boosters, 'closing' on the recruiting trail, representing the university. This last item is why I personally DO NOt think Les Miles will get the Michigan job, but plenty of Michigan fans disagree with me on this.
I have heard that Louisiana has a deep culture of corruption, and this thread illustrates its corrosive effect.
You guys seem to believe that there is is vast, subrosa conspiracy to bring Miles to Michigan, and that the 'deal is already done'.
I prefer to take the principal players at their words, unless and until they demonstrate the unreliability of that word.
Here is my take:
1. Bill Martin (Michigan's AD) commenced the search in earnest last Monday by hiring a search firm. He developed a list of about 20 names, and tasked the search firm to perform background checks (for DUIs, poor credit, and the like).
2. Martin also stated that he would follow protocol, and obtain permission before speaking to any candidate.
3. He also SPECIFICALLY stated that he would not interfere with any coaches opportunity for a championship (obviously referring to Miles).
This I believe that, while there have no doubt been discussions between Michigan representatives and Miles' agent, that there have been no discussions between Miles and any legitimate representative of Michigan.
4. Martin recently requested (and received) permission to speak with Miles, with the understanding that he would wait until after Saturday's game. HE HAS NOT YET CALLED MILES.
There is no deal. the has not even been one direct telephone conversation between Martin and Miles.
"The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine"
You guys seem to believe that there is is vast, subrosa conspiracy to bring Miles to Michigan, and that the 'deal is already done'.
I prefer to take the principal players at their words, unless and until they demonstrate the unreliability of that word.
Here is my take:
1. Bill Martin (Michigan's AD) commenced the search in earnest last Monday by hiring a search firm. He developed a list of about 20 names, and tasked the search firm to perform background checks (for DUIs, poor credit, and the like).
2. Martin also stated that he would follow protocol, and obtain permission before speaking to any candidate.
3. He also SPECIFICALLY stated that he would not interfere with any coaches opportunity for a championship (obviously referring to Miles).
This I believe that, while there have no doubt been discussions between Michigan representatives and Miles' agent, that there have been no discussions between Miles and any legitimate representative of Michigan.
4. Martin recently requested (and received) permission to speak with Miles, with the understanding that he would wait until after Saturday's game. HE HAS NOT YET CALLED MILES.
There is no deal. the has not even been one direct telephone conversation between Martin and Miles.
"The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine"
re: U. of Michigan interviews begin..........
Posted by glenn327 on 11/28/07 at 6:23 am to SouthEZtiger
do I want Miles as HC at Michigan?
I am not sure. His performance is at times underwhelming.
But that begs the question-who do I want? Again-I am not sure. Maybe Miles, maybe Kelly (Cinci), or Grobe (Wake).
My guess-and it is nothing more than that-is that it is between Miles and Kelly.
I am not sure. His performance is at times underwhelming.
But that begs the question-who do I want? Again-I am not sure. Maybe Miles, maybe Kelly (Cinci), or Grobe (Wake).
My guess-and it is nothing more than that-is that it is between Miles and Kelly.
almost forgot-Jon Gruden said his life goal is to be HC at Michigan.
That makes five major league guys (Gruden, Meyer, Holz, Miles, Phil Folmer from Tennessee) who SPECIFICALLY named Michigan as a top (or THE top) CFB program in the country, and ZERO for LSU.
Zero.
I love the smell of roasted Tigers in the morning. smells like ......Victory!
That makes five major league guys (Gruden, Meyer, Holz, Miles, Phil Folmer from Tennessee) who SPECIFICALLY named Michigan as a top (or THE top) CFB program in the country, and ZERO for LSU.
Zero.
I love the smell of roasted Tigers in the morning. smells like ......Victory!
one year old data are better than no data at all-which is what you post.
first-where did I say Florida is a better program than Michigan?
you guys keep saying Meyer chose UF over ND. Meyer had already committed to UF when the ND job opened up again.
and-as to the number of former players in the NFL All-time roster lists are here: LINK
LSU has 244 players who played one or more seasons in the NFL. Michigan has 305.
Michigan has 6 NFL hall of famers, LSU has 3.
Current (2006) rosters show 36 players who attended LSU, and 42 who attended Michigan. (source: LINK ).
what are your sources?
you guys keep saying Meyer chose UF over ND. Meyer had already committed to UF when the ND job opened up again.
and-as to the number of former players in the NFL All-time roster lists are here: LINK
LSU has 244 players who played one or more seasons in the NFL. Michigan has 305.
Michigan has 6 NFL hall of famers, LSU has 3.
Current (2006) rosters show 36 players who attended LSU, and 42 who attended Michigan. (source: LINK ).
what are your sources?
Catman88 opined:
[U of Florida is] a better program [than Michigan]
[Oklahoma is ] a better program.
and, feeling his oats, he goes for the trifecta:
[LSU is ] a better program than Michigan
---------------------------------
gosh. let's start with LSU-that is the easiest.
lets summarize the evidence that LSU is a better program than Michigan:
1. More recent mNC.
2. Better winning percentage the last few years
3. Fertile recruiting area
Now let's summarize the reasons Michigan is the better program:
1. Number one all-time in Wins
2. Number one all-time in Winning percentage
3. Michigan is a national program. Has a national fan base, has the NCAAs longest consecutive string of televised games, etc.
4. Michigan has a bigger stadium
5. Michigan has more money
6. Michigan is undertaking a $226 million renovation to the Big House, which will increase the above two margins of difference.
7. Michigan has a long tradition of treating coaches well-for over 100 years.
8. Coaches last much longer at Michigan than LSU or most other places (no coach has ever been outright fired for losing-one coach was fired for drunkness).
9. no coach has EVER left Michigan for the NFL
10. No Coach has EVER left Michigan for another CFB job.
11. Both Meyer and the Tenn HC recently were asked to name the top HCjobs in America-both named Michigan-neither named LSU.
12. At least three big-time HCs have (or have had) out clauses allowing them to leave for the Michigan job: Meyer (at Utah), Holtz (at Minnesota/Arkansas) and Miles at LSU. I have NEVER seen EVEN ONE coach with such an out clause allowing them to leave a job for the LSU job.
13. Michigan has more players in the NFL
14. Michigan has more players make All-American
15. Michigan has more players win the Heisman
I could go on-but this is more than enough.
Someone turn Catman over-he is done on this side.
[U of Florida is] a better program [than Michigan]
[Oklahoma is ] a better program.
and, feeling his oats, he goes for the trifecta:
[LSU is ] a better program than Michigan
---------------------------------
gosh. let's start with LSU-that is the easiest.
lets summarize the evidence that LSU is a better program than Michigan:
1. More recent mNC.
2. Better winning percentage the last few years
3. Fertile recruiting area
Now let's summarize the reasons Michigan is the better program:
1. Number one all-time in Wins
2. Number one all-time in Winning percentage
3. Michigan is a national program. Has a national fan base, has the NCAAs longest consecutive string of televised games, etc.
4. Michigan has a bigger stadium
5. Michigan has more money
6. Michigan is undertaking a $226 million renovation to the Big House, which will increase the above two margins of difference.
7. Michigan has a long tradition of treating coaches well-for over 100 years.
8. Coaches last much longer at Michigan than LSU or most other places (no coach has ever been outright fired for losing-one coach was fired for drunkness).
9. no coach has EVER left Michigan for the NFL
10. No Coach has EVER left Michigan for another CFB job.
11. Both Meyer and the Tenn HC recently were asked to name the top HCjobs in America-both named Michigan-neither named LSU.
12. At least three big-time HCs have (or have had) out clauses allowing them to leave for the Michigan job: Meyer (at Utah), Holtz (at Minnesota/Arkansas) and Miles at LSU. I have NEVER seen EVEN ONE coach with such an out clause allowing them to leave a job for the LSU job.
13. Michigan has more players in the NFL
14. Michigan has more players make All-American
15. Michigan has more players win the Heisman
I could go on-but this is more than enough.
Someone turn Catman over-he is done on this side.
One more 'for the Gipper' (who was from Michigan, but who played for that other school):
Some top coaches have 'out' clauses in their contracts allowing them to leave for one or a few specific coaching jobs. These are a measure of how desirable those specific coaching jobs are.
The 'out' clauses (past and present) I have seen are:
Urban Meyer (Notre Dame, tOSU, and Michigan)
Lou Holtz (Notre Dame, tOSU and Michigan)
Les Miles (Michigan only)
tallying them up, that means that Michigan is on the short list of most desirable coaching jobs for three top coaches, while Notre Dame and tOSU are so named by only two coaches. I do not know of even one SEC schools named in such an 'out' clause.
Some top coaches have 'out' clauses in their contracts allowing them to leave for one or a few specific coaching jobs. These are a measure of how desirable those specific coaching jobs are.
The 'out' clauses (past and present) I have seen are:
Urban Meyer (Notre Dame, tOSU, and Michigan)
Lou Holtz (Notre Dame, tOSU and Michigan)
Les Miles (Michigan only)
tallying them up, that means that Michigan is on the short list of most desirable coaching jobs for three top coaches, while Notre Dame and tOSU are so named by only two coaches. I do not know of even one SEC schools named in such an 'out' clause.
this is so much fun....
9. Marching Band, fight song, and stadium. The Michigan Marching Band is arguably the finest in all of CFB. Michigan was invited to perform at the halftime of the FIRST super bowl. The Michigan band invented the most famous marching display in all of CFB-the script Ohio (see tOSU s website), and according to John Phillip Sousa (and many rankings over the years) Michigan has the greatest fight song in all of CFB. Michigan stadium is the largest in all of American CFB. Like the Rose Bowl and ND stadium (which is a copy of Michigan stadium-in miniature), it is relatively quiet due to its flatness (unlike steeper, hence noisier, stadia elsewhere).
10. Rivalries: Rivalries are a big part of what makes CFB distinct from pro football. The Michigan-tOSU game has been called (by ESPN) the greatest rivalry in all of sport (not just in CFB). #2 in the ESPN ranking is Frasier-Ali. #3 is Yankees vs Red Sox.
Our second rival is Notre Dame. Michigan helped Notre Dame get its football program started. We literally taught ND how to play football (in response to their written request). We gave them the design for our stadium, which they copied-in miniature. They borrowed our school colors, and took the inspiration for their fight song (the second greatest in CFB) from a defeat at the hands of Michigan. When Knute Rockne applied for the HC job at Notre Dame, they asked him one question-can you beat the Wolverine? As noted above, Michigan is one of only two teams with a winning record vs Notre Dame.
Our third rival is Penn State. When Penn State was invited to join the Big Ten, Michigan (and the Big Ten) agreed to PSU s demand for a bye week for PSU (but not Michigan) before every Penn State-Michigan game for several years. Even with this, Michigan has a 9 game winning streak over PSU. No other team has ever beaten PSU more than four years in a row. All of our major rivals are among the top ten winningest programs of all time. Some additional schools (e.g. Michigan State and Minnesota) consider Michigan to be their biggest rival. Many schools measure themselves against Michigan, but Michigan has winning records vs all of them, in every era.
10. Intangibles: Michigan was instrumental in the emergence of modern college football as we know it today. Michigan made CFB a national game-by traveling again and again to the east coast to play all the great powers there. Only after Michigan was able to defeat Harvard and Yale, did the center of gravity in the football universe shift west of the Alleghenies. Michigan was the first team to play in a bowl (1901 Rose Bowl, vs Stanford), played in the first televised game, and holds the record for most consecutive televised games. Michigan has been instrumental in shaping the rules of CFB.
Most importantly, (together with the other members of the nation s premiere athletic conference-the Big Ten, and with active help from the Pac Ten, Notre Dame and the ACC) Michigan has long been, and remains today, the strongest bulwark against the erosion of academic integrity in college football.
9. Marching Band, fight song, and stadium. The Michigan Marching Band is arguably the finest in all of CFB. Michigan was invited to perform at the halftime of the FIRST super bowl. The Michigan band invented the most famous marching display in all of CFB-the script Ohio (see tOSU s website), and according to John Phillip Sousa (and many rankings over the years) Michigan has the greatest fight song in all of CFB. Michigan stadium is the largest in all of American CFB. Like the Rose Bowl and ND stadium (which is a copy of Michigan stadium-in miniature), it is relatively quiet due to its flatness (unlike steeper, hence noisier, stadia elsewhere).
10. Rivalries: Rivalries are a big part of what makes CFB distinct from pro football. The Michigan-tOSU game has been called (by ESPN) the greatest rivalry in all of sport (not just in CFB). #2 in the ESPN ranking is Frasier-Ali. #3 is Yankees vs Red Sox.
Our second rival is Notre Dame. Michigan helped Notre Dame get its football program started. We literally taught ND how to play football (in response to their written request). We gave them the design for our stadium, which they copied-in miniature. They borrowed our school colors, and took the inspiration for their fight song (the second greatest in CFB) from a defeat at the hands of Michigan. When Knute Rockne applied for the HC job at Notre Dame, they asked him one question-can you beat the Wolverine? As noted above, Michigan is one of only two teams with a winning record vs Notre Dame.
Our third rival is Penn State. When Penn State was invited to join the Big Ten, Michigan (and the Big Ten) agreed to PSU s demand for a bye week for PSU (but not Michigan) before every Penn State-Michigan game for several years. Even with this, Michigan has a 9 game winning streak over PSU. No other team has ever beaten PSU more than four years in a row. All of our major rivals are among the top ten winningest programs of all time. Some additional schools (e.g. Michigan State and Minnesota) consider Michigan to be their biggest rival. Many schools measure themselves against Michigan, but Michigan has winning records vs all of them, in every era.
10. Intangibles: Michigan was instrumental in the emergence of modern college football as we know it today. Michigan made CFB a national game-by traveling again and again to the east coast to play all the great powers there. Only after Michigan was able to defeat Harvard and Yale, did the center of gravity in the football universe shift west of the Alleghenies. Michigan was the first team to play in a bowl (1901 Rose Bowl, vs Stanford), played in the first televised game, and holds the record for most consecutive televised games. Michigan has been instrumental in shaping the rules of CFB.
Most importantly, (together with the other members of the nation s premiere athletic conference-the Big Ten, and with active help from the Pac Ten, Notre Dame and the ACC) Michigan has long been, and remains today, the strongest bulwark against the erosion of academic integrity in college football.
To demonstrate that such a move by Les Miles would be a distinct step UP in the CFB food chain, I have compared the two programs below, using a ranking method shortened from a long list posted by BuLLdawg, a Georgia fan, who used it to argue that Georgia belongs among the top dozen or so CFB programs in America.
I have omitted the academic criteria, in which Michigan is preeminent, and comparison of the teams mascots (Michigan has no mascot). Here is the comparison between the CFB programs at Michigan and LSU:
1. All-time wins in CFB BSD (nee Division 1A): Michigan is #1 (no one else is even close). LSU is #12 all time. Even if you restrict comparison to the last 10 years, Michigan still ranks among the top ten winningest programs, and LSU still does not.
2. All-time winning percentage Michigan is #1 in winning percent (ND is close second, everyone else is way back). LSU is #14 all time. If you restrict comparison to the last 10 years, Michigan still ranks among the winningest programs, and LSU still does not.
3. Comparing Won-Lost records against other top programs. LSU s all-time record vs the 10 winningest programs is: 40 W, 64 L, and 11 Ties (39% winning record). LSU does not have a winning record vs ANY of the top 10 winningest teams of all time (in order: Michigan, ND, Texas, tOSU, OU, Alabama, Nebraska, USC Tenn, and PSU), and has NEVER played the number 1 all-time winningest team, (Michigan). LSU has NEVER beaten the 4th, 7th , and 10th all time winningest teams. These are tOSU (which LSU has played twice), Nebraska (which LSU has played 6 times), and PSU (once)
Michigan has an all time record of 91 wins, 69 loses, and 8 ties vs the (other 9 of the) top ten all-time winingest programs, for a winning percentage of 56.6%. Among the six teams it has played more than once, Michigan has winning records vs ALL BUT ONE of the other top teams. The lone exception is USC, which holds a 6W, 4L record vs Michigan. ALL of Southern Cal s wins over Michigan were played in LA. In fact, only three of the ten winningest teams of all time have EVER beaten Michigan in Michigan.
Michigan is one of only two programs with a winning record vs Notre Dame over more than a half-dozen games (Nebraska is the other), and is one of only two teams (USC is the other) with a winning record vs the #4 all-time winningest team-tOSU. Michigan played Army during and after the war (when Army had arguably the greatest teams ever assembled-and had a hard time finding teams willing to play them). Michigan played Harvard in the 1800 s, when Harvard was the undisputed king of football. Michigan played Oklahoma, Texas and Tennessee, each in the bowl games culminating their most recent NC years, and we played USC during several of their NC years. Michigan has played them all, and usually came out on top. Michigan is the winningest team in big-time CFB.
All of the above data may be found at: LINK
4. Strength of Schedule: I could find data only for the last two years: Phil Steele ranks Michigan s SoS 13th in 2006 (using opponents ex post facto won-lost percentages, plus that of the second degree opponents) and 13th in 2007 (using only won-loss records for opponents for the previous year). LSU s SoSs ranked 50th and 28th respectively.
Further, if you take the number of times Michigan and LSU have played the top ten teams (other top 9 in Michigan s case) divided by the total games each team has played, you find that Michigan has played nearly 16% of its games all-time against this top echelon, while LSU has played about 10% of their games all-time vs this group. One could argue that, by this rough measure, Michigan has played a tougher schedule than LSU over 100 years.
5. Bowl games: In bowl games played in the South and West (as virtually all are) against teams from the South and West, Michigan s record is only 18 W and 16 L. I could not find LSU's bowl record, but (since some of their bowl games were played in Louisiana or in neighboring Texas), their record should be better.
6. Number of former players in the NFL All-time roster lists are here: LINK LSU has 244 players who played one or more seasons in the NFL. Michigan has 305. Michigan has 6 NFL hall of famers, LSU has 3. Current (2006) rosters show 36 players who attended LSU, and 42 who attended Michigan. (source: LINK ).
7. National Champs (and the associated AP rankings), Conference Championships, and Heisman Trophies. Michigan has won the Big Ten football championship 42 times outright, and shared that championship an additional 26 times. Michigan has won the (mostly mythical) national championship in CFB 11 times, and Michigan s players have won the Heisman 3 times. LSU has won the SEC football championship 9 times, and the mNC twice. One LSU player has won the Heisman.
Sources for LSU SEC Championship and National Championship data: LINK
The All Time Final AP Football Poll (from the SEC Website: LINK
Rank Team Points Top 20 Top 10 Top 5 1st 2nd
1. Michigan 715 51 36 15 2 2
2. Notre Dame 701.5 47 35 22 8 5
3. Oklahoma 689.5 44 32 27 6 4
4. ALABAMA 637 44 32 18 6 2
5. Ohio State 630 44 26 17 4 6
6. Nebraska 617 41 30 13 4 2
7. Texas 544.5 37 23 8 3 1
8. TENNESSEE 533 39 23 13 2 4
9. Southern Cal 530 39 23 15 5 5
10. Penn State 484 37 22 14 2 3
15. LSU 364 29 17 6 1 2
8. Directors Cup Rankings Final 2006-07 Standings through 6/27/07
1. Stanford, 1429.00
2. UCLA, 1232.00
3. North Carolina, 1161.33
4. Michigan, 1135.25
5. Southern California, 1103.50
17. Louisiana State University
When all is said and done, neither LSU nor any other school, can be favorably compared to Michigan. Michigan is the yardstick against which all others are measured, but Michigan has no peer. Michigan is arguably the greatest winning tradition in all of sport.
I have omitted the academic criteria, in which Michigan is preeminent, and comparison of the teams mascots (Michigan has no mascot). Here is the comparison between the CFB programs at Michigan and LSU:
1. All-time wins in CFB BSD (nee Division 1A): Michigan is #1 (no one else is even close). LSU is #12 all time. Even if you restrict comparison to the last 10 years, Michigan still ranks among the top ten winningest programs, and LSU still does not.
2. All-time winning percentage Michigan is #1 in winning percent (ND is close second, everyone else is way back). LSU is #14 all time. If you restrict comparison to the last 10 years, Michigan still ranks among the winningest programs, and LSU still does not.
3. Comparing Won-Lost records against other top programs. LSU s all-time record vs the 10 winningest programs is: 40 W, 64 L, and 11 Ties (39% winning record). LSU does not have a winning record vs ANY of the top 10 winningest teams of all time (in order: Michigan, ND, Texas, tOSU, OU, Alabama, Nebraska, USC Tenn, and PSU), and has NEVER played the number 1 all-time winningest team, (Michigan). LSU has NEVER beaten the 4th, 7th , and 10th all time winningest teams. These are tOSU (which LSU has played twice), Nebraska (which LSU has played 6 times), and PSU (once)
Michigan has an all time record of 91 wins, 69 loses, and 8 ties vs the (other 9 of the) top ten all-time winingest programs, for a winning percentage of 56.6%. Among the six teams it has played more than once, Michigan has winning records vs ALL BUT ONE of the other top teams. The lone exception is USC, which holds a 6W, 4L record vs Michigan. ALL of Southern Cal s wins over Michigan were played in LA. In fact, only three of the ten winningest teams of all time have EVER beaten Michigan in Michigan.
Michigan is one of only two programs with a winning record vs Notre Dame over more than a half-dozen games (Nebraska is the other), and is one of only two teams (USC is the other) with a winning record vs the #4 all-time winningest team-tOSU. Michigan played Army during and after the war (when Army had arguably the greatest teams ever assembled-and had a hard time finding teams willing to play them). Michigan played Harvard in the 1800 s, when Harvard was the undisputed king of football. Michigan played Oklahoma, Texas and Tennessee, each in the bowl games culminating their most recent NC years, and we played USC during several of their NC years. Michigan has played them all, and usually came out on top. Michigan is the winningest team in big-time CFB.
All of the above data may be found at: LINK
4. Strength of Schedule: I could find data only for the last two years: Phil Steele ranks Michigan s SoS 13th in 2006 (using opponents ex post facto won-lost percentages, plus that of the second degree opponents) and 13th in 2007 (using only won-loss records for opponents for the previous year). LSU s SoSs ranked 50th and 28th respectively.
Further, if you take the number of times Michigan and LSU have played the top ten teams (other top 9 in Michigan s case) divided by the total games each team has played, you find that Michigan has played nearly 16% of its games all-time against this top echelon, while LSU has played about 10% of their games all-time vs this group. One could argue that, by this rough measure, Michigan has played a tougher schedule than LSU over 100 years.
5. Bowl games: In bowl games played in the South and West (as virtually all are) against teams from the South and West, Michigan s record is only 18 W and 16 L. I could not find LSU's bowl record, but (since some of their bowl games were played in Louisiana or in neighboring Texas), their record should be better.
6. Number of former players in the NFL All-time roster lists are here: LINK LSU has 244 players who played one or more seasons in the NFL. Michigan has 305. Michigan has 6 NFL hall of famers, LSU has 3. Current (2006) rosters show 36 players who attended LSU, and 42 who attended Michigan. (source: LINK ).
7. National Champs (and the associated AP rankings), Conference Championships, and Heisman Trophies. Michigan has won the Big Ten football championship 42 times outright, and shared that championship an additional 26 times. Michigan has won the (mostly mythical) national championship in CFB 11 times, and Michigan s players have won the Heisman 3 times. LSU has won the SEC football championship 9 times, and the mNC twice. One LSU player has won the Heisman.
Sources for LSU SEC Championship and National Championship data: LINK
The All Time Final AP Football Poll (from the SEC Website: LINK
Rank Team Points Top 20 Top 10 Top 5 1st 2nd
1. Michigan 715 51 36 15 2 2
2. Notre Dame 701.5 47 35 22 8 5
3. Oklahoma 689.5 44 32 27 6 4
4. ALABAMA 637 44 32 18 6 2
5. Ohio State 630 44 26 17 4 6
6. Nebraska 617 41 30 13 4 2
7. Texas 544.5 37 23 8 3 1
8. TENNESSEE 533 39 23 13 2 4
9. Southern Cal 530 39 23 15 5 5
10. Penn State 484 37 22 14 2 3
15. LSU 364 29 17 6 1 2
8. Directors Cup Rankings Final 2006-07 Standings through 6/27/07
1. Stanford, 1429.00
2. UCLA, 1232.00
3. North Carolina, 1161.33
4. Michigan, 1135.25
5. Southern California, 1103.50
17. Louisiana State University
When all is said and done, neither LSU nor any other school, can be favorably compared to Michigan. Michigan is the yardstick against which all others are measured, but Michigan has no peer. Michigan is arguably the greatest winning tradition in all of sport.
Gosh, fun with statistics.....you can get pretty much any result you want if you choose the time frame arbitrarily enough, viz:
• Since the 2000 season . . . 6.5 years
• Michigan owns a whopping 11 national titles in program history; LSU just two . . . . 120ish years
. But, since 1949 . . . . . 58 years
• LSU is 19-18-1 all-time in bowl games . . . now back to 120 years
Over the past 10 seasons . . . . and finally 10 years
can I try? How about LA-Monroe is better than Alabama over the last few days?
Or, Boise State is America's winningest program over the last five years-which seems to me to be the most reasonable interval to use.
The arbitariness of using different time intervals (and the arbitrariness of the results) is bad enough, but when you mix several intervals in one post/article, you get garbage.
Michigan is the winningest program in Div 1A CFB over all time (the least arbitrary time frame)-in wins, in winning percentage, in head to head record vs other top teams.
• Since the 2000 season . . . 6.5 years
• Michigan owns a whopping 11 national titles in program history; LSU just two . . . . 120ish years
. But, since 1949 . . . . . 58 years
• LSU is 19-18-1 all-time in bowl games . . . now back to 120 years
Over the past 10 seasons . . . . and finally 10 years
can I try? How about LA-Monroe is better than Alabama over the last few days?
Or, Boise State is America's winningest program over the last five years-which seems to me to be the most reasonable interval to use.
The arbitariness of using different time intervals (and the arbitrariness of the results) is bad enough, but when you mix several intervals in one post/article, you get garbage.
Michigan is the winningest program in Div 1A CFB over all time (the least arbitrary time frame)-in wins, in winning percentage, in head to head record vs other top teams.
re: Carr Retires as Michigan's Coach...
Posted by glenn327 on 11/20/07 at 10:21 am to ohieaux tiger
wanna be Ivy Leaguers?
apparently you are unaware that Michigan was invited to join the Ivy League.
And just so you know-several presidents of the Ivy League Universities came through Michigan, and the other Big Ten Schools.
apparently you are unaware that Michigan was invited to join the Ivy League.
And just so you know-several presidents of the Ivy League Universities came through Michigan, and the other Big Ten Schools.
OK.... I will bite.
What is this Germans stuff?
G
What is this Germans stuff?
G
Popular
51
