83FairmontSaint83

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Dude you kinda sound like a 2 or 3 that thinks they are an 8.

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No I don't think I'm an 8 by any means but I know I'm not a 2 or 3. I'm pretty average looking but not ugly. I even decided to ask some women and pretty much all of them ranged from 5 - 7.

I believe in honesty, I don't delude myself.

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I've been on this website for 10 years. The men here have expressed the opinion with no backlash on this website for all 10 of those years.

Maybe instead of reading websites or articles where most people present are like-minded and vocal, you should go out and experience the world. In the real world, with people you meet and interact with every day, women are not joined together hating men. Especially here in the south.

You people love to take ~LiBeRaL mEdIa~ and act like that's how our entire society is operating. Last time I checked, a very not feminist/not liberal president was elected into office by our very people and -GASP- millions of women voted for him. Especially here in the south.

I'm so tired of people on this website sharing some bull shite article written by a group they don't agree with and acting like this how everyone in our day to day lives feels.

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I never said all women do, I never said all media and all websites do, but a lot do. And personally I'm tired of women acting like there isn't a double standard in our society. You might not personally hate men, but that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of women out there that don't.

The reality is men are trashed, whether it's by the media, family members, friends, coworkers etc. for only considering looks. As a man you have to be very careful about talking about women, especially in terms of physical features. But women can be very open about a man's finances or even a man's look and no on judges them. Heck a lot of women's friends love to gossip about various men. You might not see it in your personal life LouisianaLady, but there is a double standard against men when it comes to this issue, whether you like it or not.

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the problem is the bold part isn't really true

it's like the top 20% of women going for the top 1% of men, then the next 30-40% of women going for the next 10% of men

that's why i said AFCs have it rough. they're in that 65-75% but aren't competing for that 65-75% of women

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Exactly. If society worked the way LouisianaLady says it works it wouldn't be so bad. Everyone would stay in their lane, guys who are 6's and 7's (average guys like me) would be dating and having sex with 6 and 7 girls. That's not what is currently happening.

If you're a 6 or 7 guy you're probably lucky if you're dating a woman above 4, 4 or 5 guy, you're picking up the 1 and 2 scraps. The whole dating scene is currently skewed badly towards women.

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the biggest difference is access to emotional and sexual relationships. some men are completely excluded (while almost no women are). this thread is about marriage though, not sex.

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Not the primary topic, but this can't be emphasized enough. Women think men have it so much better in dating but the reality is it's the opposite. Unless the woman is just a truly atrocious 1 or 2 almost any woman can have sex. With online dating and social media about 80% of women are going after the top 20% of men. Another 20% of men will have a chance with the next 10% of women.

The other 60% of men, including almost all average men and all below average (but not ugly) men are pretty much excluded from sex. That's why IMO you're seeing so many young men committing violent acts and how groups like Incels have grown.

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Average Frustrated Chump

on a 0-10 scale incels are like 0-1.5s. AFCs are your 6.5-7.5s who are excluded from like the top half (maybe 2/3) or so of women in the dating pool

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Interesting, I've never heard of that term but that definitely fits me.

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eh you're kind of going all Bob and just going with the "incel. argument invalid" meme

big difference in incels and AFCs

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Agreed. Incels take the anti-women sentiment too far but they aren't wrong all the time. They can make some very valid points. I've never heard fo AFC's, what group is that?

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Yup. The irony here, and I see it all the time, is that if you are making that kind of Jack, the last thing you want is a wife that isn't around. And, unfortunately, most successful professionals have a tendency to not be around.

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The irony about this is that a lot of women are successful professionals are typically in their 30s and at best moderately attractive. They are going after successful professional guys who have a TON of options. Most of those guys, especially if they are in their 30s, are either not going to commit or they are looking for a girl in her mid to late 20s who is incredibly hot and they will probably get it.

So it's really funny when you hear those women crying "where are all the good men!"

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What are the "available men" making? They never gave that number to us. There are people all across the country making $25k-$30k. 55% more than $25k is not exactly super rich. Are you saying the "normal" men who make this should be worth marrying to women? I don't disagree with you for the record, but I also see why a woman would not be jumping to marry a man who is struggling to meet ends meet. There are also so many other factors that go into this.

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Where do I even begin with this. The discrimination you show against average to working class men is pathetic. And to answer your question I say yes, a man is more than his bank account. A man who makes 35-40k should be worth marrying to women, especially if it's a man who is doing something he enjoys.

So again a man is only worth what is in his bank account? You say that a man who only makes around 40k isn't worth marrying in most women's eyes? Why are you still assuming that the man has to bring home all the bacon? If the woman is making a decent salary and the man is happy at his job why should the money make any difference? If you both make 40k a year that means combined you're at 80k. Not rich by any means but without children you can still live a pretty decent lifestyle on that.

I do take some offense to your statement as I am right in the middle of what you said you find unattractive. I make around 40k a year.

So according to you women shouldn't be "jumping" towards men who only make 35 - 40k a year. Yet us men should be jumping towards women who only make 35 - 40k a year? Why should us men marry any woman who makes less than us? Maybe us men should start "marrying up"? Of course I say that because you know and I know that if men held women to that same standard men would be called misogynistic and every other name in the book.

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Plenty of people are satisfied making $30k, but lets be real. On that salary, you're not in a very ambitious role OR you're super young. And since we are talking about marriage trends, I assume we are talking about people over the age of 25, closer to 30.

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What about teachers? What about firemen? What about doctors who spend time in other countries? What about people who work for volunteer organizations? There's a lot of professions that are critical to this country that don't pay particularly well but people (men and women alike) do them because they have a passion for them, because they enjoy them. Are men just supposed to throw all that away to impress a woman? Do you hold women to the same standard?

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What I gathered from this article is that women are more educated than ever, making more money overall that they ever were, and are opting for men doing the same.

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So money is the only indicator to you of success? And women call us men simple minded and shallow. There is far more to success than money. What I gathered from this article is that a lot of women (not all, but a lot) are hypocrites. They want equality when it benefits them (in the workplace for example) but they want traditional gender roles when it comes to relationship. They still expect the man to be an ATM and bring home the bacon.

Let me ask you this LouisianaLady, what if men started changing their standards? What if all of us men in our 30s who are even average decided that we only want to date women who are in their late 20s/early 30s, not divorced, no children, physically attractive and work out several times a week if not daily to maintain their bodies? Would you be accepting of that?

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I did not see anywhere that it mentioned women who make $50k only marry men who make $100k. I did, however, see it implied that women who make $50k want to marry men who also make $50k or more.

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Why? Why should that even matter? If you're not planning on having kids why should income really matter? Men for years now have "married down" and married women who make 1/2, 1/3 or even less of what they make? So it seems a little hypocritical that women refuse to marry down in any way.

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And I don't really see a huge issue in that..?

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How can you not? Feminists have been pushing the equality stuff for how long now. Isn't this what equality was all about? Women making money so that they wouldn't have to rely on a man for his money? Or was that all just a lie?

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Men value looks and will take a hot woman who doesn't make money. Women value money and many won't marry a man who makes less.

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The difference is men are trashed, ridiculed, ghosted, humiliated and even threatened for admitting that looks matter. They try to make us men feel guilty for even thinking about physical attractiveness. Yet women receive no pushback for considering economic attractiveness. In many ways it's even encouraged.

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Maybe, but then there are those women that make decent money but want the man to make even more than them. In other words they want all the benefits and none of the drawbacks.

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Exactly, they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want no risk, they want to know that even if the marriage goes south they'll come out richer and the man will come out poorer.

Women expect men to put all their financial resources at risk for a woman, but as these articles have shown women who are well off financially will NEVER put their resources at risk for a man.

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Yeah there are countless examples of women marrying down, the who article is about how women struggle to find men who are stable financially or have their shite together. Nothing wrong with the article really, OP is trying to make something out of nothing.

Almost like, "I don't care if my woman works at Burger King as long as she is hot" apparently that is all that appeals to them. Men are willing to settle for attractiveness while women usually expect more.

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That's still the exception, not the rule. And it's still shallow, why should a man just be reduced to his bank account? LouisianaLady admit it, you would be furious if a guy only looked at you as a piece of a** he could screw around with. How do you think it makes us feel when we are reduced to a bunch of numbers?

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I literally have a group of 4 children girl friends, all of whom are married to men who make about the same of them.

You sound really angry at women for something only a fraction of them might think.

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Really, so you think they actually wrote an article about just a few women? They wouldn't have written this article if this wasn't becoming a major issue.

I saw a study a few years back that 80%, yes 80%, of women still expect to "marry up". I don't have the article anymore but I could try to find it. Care to defend that though?

I'm not saying ALL women are like this but this isn't some small minority like you want to believe.