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Manored77
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| Number of Posts: | 51 |
| Registered on: | 6/12/2016 |
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re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/24/16 at 12:32 am to AnOddDevice
quote:
Nah, not worried. In fact, we hire hands every month. I bid and quote jobs where excavation and shoring is required. I also did the work for a few years and had a little college under my belt (less than you, actually). My employer is footing the bill for me to go back to school as well as a BCSP cert.
We hire people that want to work, like most places. Experience or college isn't needed.
That's what I don't get about you and your incessant whining. Go out and work. You cry about needing experience. Go get it. I've never heard of a construction group that won't hire an able bodied person. I don't know about everyone else, but we call them neck-downs because that's all we need them for.
Of course a person with intelligence would stand out in a group like that and they begin running crews or other aspects of the job.
So go start at the bottom and get noticed. It won't be hard. The same advice no less than a half dozen people already gave you.
Thanks. Yes, I realize that, accepting it and am bracing myself for the hard work.
0
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/24/16 at 12:16 am to Whoopdedo_LSU
Of course. Thanks. Yeah, that makes sense. I am already looking into where to sign up. I am already invested into this degree so I will probably see about summer work first then see about other stuff. I already figured it was going to be hard. I am ready despite what other might weirdly think from a few internet posts.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/24/16 at 12:07 am to AnOddDevice
frick off. I was told to incorporate field experience with the degree but to over emphasize field experience because the degree means balls without the experience. I accepted that part and said I'd work for hourly pay, for peanuts just to get experience. What part of that did you not get in between thinking you're an internet roughneck telling a "college boy" what's up.
This isn't about being "thin-skinned" it's about your hangups about another college guy getting into this line of work with less experience than you or some other insecure hang up. I get that it's hard work, ball busting, and will give me callouses on my latte sipping hands or what ever other cliched stereotypes you think. It's not the military and I am not going to Iraq, so get off your fricking high horse and step aside, old man. I get the advice and get it well. I was asking about how much time is needed, whether to do day labor or shadow a field engineer, apprenticeship or not. Questions pertaining to the field experience, you fricking dolt. The part about the classes was just if it was relevant or not.
This isn't about being "thin-skinned" it's about your hangups about another college guy getting into this line of work with less experience than you or some other insecure hang up. I get that it's hard work, ball busting, and will give me callouses on my latte sipping hands or what ever other cliched stereotypes you think. It's not the military and I am not going to Iraq, so get off your fricking high horse and step aside, old man. I get the advice and get it well. I was asking about how much time is needed, whether to do day labor or shadow a field engineer, apprenticeship or not. Questions pertaining to the field experience, you fricking dolt. The part about the classes was just if it was relevant or not.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/23/16 at 11:40 pm to AnOddDevice
Oh get off it! I didn't say I wouldn't do it and even said I'd do what it takes. If that means less reliance on degrees and more on field work then so be it. I don't know how you thought in between thinking about writing a useless post that I was avoiding the sound advice offered. Seriously you just felt the need to do some net tough talk. Feel better now?
Point is I appreciate the advice here and was just trying to answer all the posts. I don't know how you and others interpreted that as avoiding good advice in favor of jumping the line. It does sound like roughneck talk to try and get a wet behind the ears guy to further understand a point he already gets. Field experience >>> education. I was just asking what kind of field experience is best. It' isn't avoiding dirty work. How bad is your reading comprehension?
Point is I appreciate the advice here and was just trying to answer all the posts. I don't know how you and others interpreted that as avoiding good advice in favor of jumping the line. It does sound like roughneck talk to try and get a wet behind the ears guy to further understand a point he already gets. Field experience >>> education. I was just asking what kind of field experience is best. It' isn't avoiding dirty work. How bad is your reading comprehension?
Alright I get it. It will be a long road and in order to excel I would have to get my hands dirty. I said I don't mind that. I'm trying to answer all respondents who offer conflicting advice that's all.
What's up with the insults and red flag calls? Seriously this isn't rocket science and I'm overthinking this because I'm investing some hard earned money on getting started. Cut me some slack. I'm only answering people who are offering other experiences. I'm not ignoring the sound advice people have already given me. I'm not looking to just take six courses and be at the top. That's stupid and at this point some of you are just insulting for the heck of it. I get it. It's to break down the wet behind the ears college guy who thinks a piece of paper is going to get him a Cush job in an office managing the hard tough guys on the ground. That's not what this is.
What's up with the insults and red flag calls? Seriously this isn't rocket science and I'm overthinking this because I'm investing some hard earned money on getting started. Cut me some slack. I'm only answering people who are offering other experiences. I'm not ignoring the sound advice people have already given me. I'm not looking to just take six courses and be at the top. That's stupid and at this point some of you are just insulting for the heck of it. I get it. It's to break down the wet behind the ears college guy who thinks a piece of paper is going to get him a Cush job in an office managing the hard tough guys on the ground. That's not what this is.
quote:
I accepted a job as a project engineer mid way through my last semester of college after mulling over four job offers.
Are you bachelors or masters? Are you familiar at all with the Post Bac? it's six core courses, accelerated from the bachelors level. Sort of like a second major for an unrelated BS. I have it in Econ.
You think any of those employees would cobsider someone like me with a post Bac cert in CM like they did with you for employment for a PM or assistant PM.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/23/16 at 1:08 pm to MAUCKjersey1
Baseballmind and Mauckjersey, I'm all for that. And I will find it. Now Louisiana is different from CA. Here they have local unions that sort of control the market and I was under the impression that to find work with no experience you'd have to go through their apprenticeship program. Would that even be a solid answer?
I mean I am just getting all sorts of answers. One to join a subcontractors and do day laborer. Others say just wait for an internship and show a manager onsite. I'll do it all. In fact I like the two summers and then shadowing thing you did, Baseball.
I think I am going to contact LSU and start asking about all the resources they offer online candidates in the Post Bac out of state. I am sure they have something even if its small.
At least I am glad that LSU has such a good rep in the field and has established such contacts.
I mean I am just getting all sorts of answers. One to join a subcontractors and do day laborer. Others say just wait for an internship and show a manager onsite. I'll do it all. In fact I like the two summers and then shadowing thing you did, Baseball.
I think I am going to contact LSU and start asking about all the resources they offer online candidates in the Post Bac out of state. I am sure they have something even if its small.
At least I am glad that LSU has such a good rep in the field and has established such contacts.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/23/16 at 11:21 am to Pelagic Patron
quote:
It is sufficient. We have one guy with an ITT tech degree. You probably won't start at the same salary as a construction management b.s. but it doesn't take long to prove yourself.
If a guy with an ITT Tech degree can find work, I don't see why I couldn't either. LSU has a great rep for CM. I am sure even at the basic Post Bac level it's seen in a good light.
Salary means nothing to me right now. I'd work for hourly pay. All that matters is being able to learn on the job.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/23/16 at 11:00 am to Screaming Viking
quote:
Manored, I can offer a slightly different perspective.
I am a construction material supplier, and have interviewed well over 100 disgruntled CM graduates.
Walk into an interview and honestly ask how they can offer you a plan to be well rounded, and create a career. The more you know, the better off you will be. This is a slow process. Be patient and learn, but be clear that you want to learn.
Anyone that ever brings up money in the first interview is asked to leave immediately.
That's all I want is to establish a career. Money is not an issue for me. That all will come much later with experience and fortitude. All I want is a foot in the door and I'm willing to work hard and do what it takes.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/23/16 at 9:56 am to BlackCoffeeKid
quote:
they highly stress this and are top notch when it comes to helping us find internships.
Don't know what happened with the OP in particular.
I'm barely a month into the program. You're probably on campus doing the on campus bachelors degree. I'm doing the Post Bac certificate online all the way out in California. I'll have to see how far their resources stretch but Kingbob already mentioned that San Diego is where many alumni are. I'm in Burbank though which is a bit further north. I'm sure I'll land something.
First I have to see if they even offer such resources/services to online Post Bac candidates.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/23/16 at 9:51 am to RealityTiger
quote:
Almost every GC in DFW is hiring right now. We just hired 3 kids out of college as field engineers that had business or finance degrees. Give them a tape measure and start making punch list and addressing quality control. They will manage onsite materials, jobsite conditions, enforce the safety program, generate RFIs, daily reports...etc.
You hired them right out of college as field engineers? They didn't even have CM degrees?
See I'm not knocking any of the advice here or ignoring it by asking questions. It's just I'm getting several different answers. Just today I found a few posts on Craigslist of construction companies looking for assistant project manager, no experience just be a recent Grad from an engineering or CM or equivalent. There is a lot of job site work involved though.
Is this what you meant when you hired Patron?
There seem to be many roads into this field but I do value the on site job experience.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/23/16 at 12:51 am to lsugerberbaby
Of course I'm taking the advice, I was just responding to the other conflicting advice I've received on here too. I don't mind grinding it to get ahead. Trust me this isn't falling on deaf ears.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/23/16 at 12:25 am to Mr. Hangover
Me? Alright! Thanks!
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/22/16 at 11:52 pm to thermal9221
quote:
Get a degree in cm. bachelors
Get a job with any contractor that will hire you.
Regardless of the field.
Proceed with your path.
Already have a bachelors in Econ. The Post bac I'm doing is sort of like an extra major. It's six core courses in the basics.
re: Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/22/16 at 11:05 pm to Pelagic Patron
Pelagic Patron, do you think a Post Bac Certificate that has all the basics is sufficient to land the work you're talking about? Or should I hold off until I finish a masters?
quote:
The experience comments relate to being on a job site doing real work...operating equipment, framing, running a jackhammer on concrete somebody screwed up, storing and maintaining material lay down areas, learning tools, understanding job site culture and methods of communication, becoming fluent in reading/interpreting drawings, etc, etc, etc. I could go on for an hour on this. The bottom line is, just like this guy said, if you don't know how to build it then you'll never be able to manage it. I worked in the field as a laborer for a couple summers starting the yr bf college. Worked my way up to managing small crews for misc activities the super felt like I could handle. Ended up helping him with layout for site work, foundations, building corners, interior finishes, etc. When I graduated LSU's CM dept I moved to Atlanta and got a job the first week I came over. My gpa sucked bc I partied my arse off in college, but they never even asked...I had that sheet of paper and I had 6 yrs of experience that allowed me to be fluent in the language of construction. That early experience has really propelled me to where I am today along with my ability to sell and develop relationships. Just started my own biz this year and we're kicking arse.
You need to pinpoint where you want to get. Do you like commercial or industrial? Do you want to be a GC and run the whole process or be a sub and try to be the best at your limited scope. Once you answer a few of these types of questions you'll be able to figure out the best spot to start learning. You can always go "hang drywall" for the local union but that may not expose you to other things that will help you grow in the right direction. Always be thinking about you're position and be mindful about doing things and being places that will be stepping stones for where you want to be. It will most likely not come fast, but you'll look back in 15-20 yrs and be astounded at all of your experience. Another thing I learned along the way...try to work for the best companies with the best reputations. You need to learn how they operate and emulate everything they do. It's been very beneficial to me.
Lastly, work your arse off. It kind of goes without saying, but get there early and stay late before you have a lot of family obligations. Those early years have the ability to propel you in the future even without you knowing it. You should also identify a few people that can mentor you along the way. For me it's successful construction related business owners that have character and integrity. It's invaluable to be able to pick up the phone and call those types of people and get insight on a situation you've never dealt with.
Sorry for the wall of text, but this is a subject I'm passionate about.
Be passionate all you want and let me know everything. I need to be schooled. I was hoping it wouldn't be actual grunt work but more shadowing the field manager but I am willing to do the former if it will make me better equipped in the long run.
The local unions offer apprenticeship programs that are structured and tailored to teach you the industry which is why I wanted to sign up with one but you think it would be too limited in scope? Is it not the same work? Same experience?
Now are you saying that it's near impossible to find an entry level project manager job without experience OR that I would benefit tremendously above and beyond if I were to actually get on a site and work first?
quote:
They actually have a pretty sizeable presence in CA. They have several alumni in high places in San Diego, in particular. Heck, San Diego has the largest LSU alumni chapter outside of Louisiana and Texas.
Kingbob, do you think they'd be able to find me some intern work with the Post Bac before jumping into the masters?
quote:
then go do it
I'm not at all clear what your questions are
in any event, good luck to you
the industry needs smart people but more than that it needs motivated people
My only question was what was meant by experience. Subcontractor work, grunt work or working for a contractor shadowing a super or field manager. I would prefer the latter but if it had to be the former, I'd also do it. Trust me I am motivated.
quote:
go back and read my first post
day one...here's a broom, get to sweeping
you'll move up from there
trust me
you'll stand out in the crowd of your peers
I have no qualms about doing this either. I would work wherever they needed me.
One of my friends who was a general business major who got his masters had no problems transitioning from the post bac to the masters. He had worked in construction before, but only as a gopher for his dad when he was a teenager. You get your experience via internships between, or part time during, semesters.
King bob you rock! I am going to sign up with this association ASAP. So your friend had no problems going from Post Bac to Masters? Did he have to take the GRE? I was told by an enrollment specialist that if you ace the Post Bac that it's much easier to transition to a masters and the GRE is waived. The only thing I was worried about was not lacking the managerial experience.
I am in the same boat as your friend. I did some summer work for my father in law putting up sheet rock. He owns a construction company. I could just ask him for help but he's in Texas and I'm in CA for now.
I hope that association you cited stretches out to CA!
quote:
The LSU Construction Student Association (CSA) and Construction Industry Advisory Council (CIAC) will be super helpful for this. Just make sure you get involved in CSA and sign up for the mentor program. They'll pair you up with a CIAC member who will in all likelihood give you an internship if you can't find one yourself.
You're going in the right direction.
King bob you rock! I am going to sign up with this association ASAP. So your friend had no problems going from Post Bac to Masters? Did he have to take the GRE? I was told by an enrollment specialist that if you ace the Post Bac that it's much easier to transition to a masters and the GRE is waived. The only thing I was worried about was not lacking the managerial experience. I am in the same boat as your friend. I did some summer work for my father in law putting up sheet rock. He owns a construction company. I could just ask him for help but he's in Texas and I'm in CA for now.
I hope that association you cited stretches out to CA!
quote:
you go beat the streets and get hired
are you really asking this question?
these are 15/hr jobs dude
Anyone with a pulse can get them
LOL! I expected that from the actual sub-contracting work but not from something such as working with a super or field operations manager? You can really get hired for this right off the bat?
quote:
I'm currently in Auburn's program. I start an internship in 3 weeks with Turner - I still have around 1.5 years left. Did LSU not stress the importance of internships/co-op in this field?
It's a Post Bac program not a bachelors or a masters. It's an accelerated version of their bachelors to meet the pre-reqs for their masters program.
It covers all the basics and is only a year long program full time. Are you in a masters or bachelors? Did you have any experience at all before getting your internship?
I am wondering if Turner would even look at the Post Bac for consideration.
quote:
By working in the field he means being on an actual commercial or industrial job site. You will probably not be swinging a hammer unless you go to work for a subcontractor. You will be tasked with doing whatever the superintendent or field operations manager needs you to do. You may be taking pictures and marking up drawings, shadowing a superintendent, etc. Being in the field gives you a good opportunity to learn how a project is built from the ground up and to experience some of the challenges that projects encounter.
I am a commercial estimator and I wish I would have gone into the field first. Once you become a pm or an estimator it is very hard to find the time to observe projects in the field.
Like one of the earlier posters said, you need to get an internship. Go to career services, they should be able to help you.
Yes!!!!
Finally, thank you! That's what I wanted to know. Now given this tidbit of relevant info:
1.) How does one go about trying to get this experience working with the super or field operations manager?
2.) Is the Post Bac certificate in CM sufficient enough in your opinion to satisfy at least the academic requirement need to pique the interest of the super or field operations manager I'd want to shadow?
quote:
By working in the field he means being on an actual commercial or industrial job site. You will probably not be swinging a hammer unless you go to work for a subcontractor. You will be tasked with doing whatever the superintendent or field operations manager needs you to do. You may be taking pictures and marking up drawings, shadowing a superintendent, etc. Being in the field gives you a good opportunity to learn how a project is built from the ground up and to experience some of the challenges that projects encounter.
I am a commercial estimator and I wish I would have gone into the field first. Once you become a pm or an estimator it is very hard to find the time to observe projects in the field.
Like one of the earlier posters said, you need to get an internship. Go to career services, they should be able to help you.
Yes!!!!
Finally, thank you! That's what I wanted to know. Now given this tidbit of relevant info:
1.) How does one go about trying to get this experience working with the super or field operations manager?
2.) Is the Post Bac certificate in CM sufficient enough in your opinion to satisfy at least the academic requirement need to pique the interest of the super or field operations manager I'd want to shadow?
Thank you for the reply. But I really need some specifics because this is the part that I need spelled out. By on the field, do you mean to actually put up sheet rock, hammer and nails, shovel, what not. As in get on the job site working as a construction employee? OR are do you mean shadow a PM/CM or a foreman and act as an assistant? Is that what you guys mean?
I can do either.
I can do either.
Then how are these grads getting jobs in construction after graduating?
quote:
This.
Without experience, you're a gup in the ocean. Getting a masters before you ever put on boots is useless. Even with the degree, you can't be hired in any position of importance over a guy with experience.
This stuff about experience is so vague. I get it. Please though, what do you guys mean by it. Explain it like I'm five.
I am new to this field. Brand new. By experience, do you mean pick up a hammer and start putting up drywall?
My CM degree is not a bachelors. My bachelors is in Economics from a different school. This CM degree I am getting is a Post Bac Certificate in CM. It covers all the basics that a bachelors would just in an accelerated pace. Would this be sufficient? If so, great. If not, what do I do? To get experience there a bunch of local unions that would be glad to give me an apprenticeship to put up some sheet rock or do electrical work.
Mytigger, I am not asking for a job just advice on how to go about looking for one. As a contractor, would you hire someone who is brand new to construction and just has a post-bac cert in CM? I have business experience but not in construction.
Could I get an entry level assistant project manager job? People tell me to get experience in the field but what does that mean? Does that mean look for an internship with a PM/CM? Or go sign up for an apprenticeship with the drywall local union?
Help a guy out by giving some sound advice from an employers perspective
Could I get an entry level assistant project manager job? People tell me to get experience in the field but what does that mean? Does that mean look for an internship with a PM/CM? Or go sign up for an apprenticeship with the drywall local union?
Help a guy out by giving some sound advice from an employers perspective
quote:
FWIW, as a contractor who hires LSU CM students on a yearly basis I can tell you that kids who chose to spend their time and money to get a Masters in CM instead of going to work after their bachelor degree fall to the bottom of my list.
If you're a good employee your employer will pay for you to get a masters degree somewhere down the line when you can actually put it to use with your job.
If it were up to me I'd stop at the Post Bac which has all the fundamentals of estimating, scheduling, materials and management/administration. But the catch 22 I am seeing is no one will hire without experience, and I cannot get the experience without getting hired. I was hoping having some academic knowledge that's foundational would help.
As an employer, if you think that I could even land an entry level assistant project manager job after a Post Bac Certificate in CM then by all means let me know so I won't spend even more of MY own money and wait for the company to foot the bill.
Construction Management redux.....
Posted by Manored77 on 7/22/16 at 8:04 pm
I am bringing this topic up again because I had such good responses from some helpful posters last time around and I forgot to ask an important question.
I was wondering if anyone here knew anyone that transitioned from Post Bac construction management to Masters? If so, was it difficult? Did you still have to take the GRE and did you have an entirely different bachelors degree other than Eng, Arch, or CM?
Do you have to have relevant experience in order to apply?
Kujo, did you know anyone? Texas Tiger, King Bob? Any knowledge? Thanks....
I was wondering if anyone here knew anyone that transitioned from Post Bac construction management to Masters? If so, was it difficult? Did you still have to take the GRE and did you have an entirely different bachelors degree other than Eng, Arch, or CM?
Do you have to have relevant experience in order to apply?
Kujo, did you know anyone? Texas Tiger, King Bob? Any knowledge? Thanks....
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