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RF Spectrum Analyzers - Anyone have a TinySA?

Posted on 1/9/24 at 1:34 pm
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28705 posts
Posted on 1/9/24 at 1:34 pm
I just ordered one and I'm hoping it can help me resolve an issue a client of mine has been having. The issue is the wifi is awful, particularly 2.4ghz. Over the last few years they have switched ISPs, modems, routers, and APs and the problem has persisted. Wired devices typically work fine, and 5ghz wifi devices are typically fine, but 2.4ghz devices in particular fall off the network all the time and speeds are extremely slow in many places where it shouldn't be that slow (like maybe 100 kbps slow).

I'm fairly tech-savvy and have pretty good knowledge of wifi and other radio devices in general, but I've never gotten down to the nitty-gritty of a lot of it and I'm sure there will be a steep learning curve. So probably a long shot but maybe someone here has a TinySA or similar device and could share some info or tips to go about hunting down some RF interference issues.

Right now my guess is some equipment additions or adjustments were made to a comms tower when a hospital was built nearby. Client thinks the problems started when the hospital was built, and other residents in the neighborhood seem to have troubles but afaik not to this extent.
Posted by wileyjones
Member since May 2014
2293 posts
Posted on 1/9/24 at 6:41 pm to
well for one thing, the TinySA won't go up to 2.4GHz. you can use a cheap RTL-SDR ($20) and GQRX or SDRSharp that will get you raw spectrum analysis, but that won't tell you much except there's some spread-spectrum noise in the frequency range.

is the client residential or more of a crowded business with lots of other networks?

you can force different channels in the router settings; off the cuff, I'd just try a few different ones and see if things improve.

if you wanna do it the hacker way, grab an alfa card and the aircrack-ng suite to monitor what nearby networks are using which channels. if everyone is on channel 6 or 12, go to channel 10 or whatever. I can walk you through that step if needed
Posted by wileyjones
Member since May 2014
2293 posts
Posted on 1/9/24 at 6:44 pm to
welp, I take that back. apparently the tinySAs can get up in range, if you end up getting one let me know how it is. looks pretty slick actually
Posted by mchias1
Member since Dec 2009
802 posts
Posted on 1/9/24 at 7:17 pm to
My question is what are you going to do if there is a lot of interference in the 2.4 ghz spectrum?

With a wifi analyzer on your phone or laptop you could see the what channels are most used and avoid those with your AP. But if there's other devices, there's nothing you can do besides building a giant faraday cage.
Posted by junkfunky
Member since Jan 2011
33875 posts
Posted on 1/9/24 at 8:06 pm to
Y first thought was building materials because that's what I know/deal with but the radio interference thing reminds me of the issue along essen between the interstates completely obliterating cell coverage. I think it was eventually found out to be an issue with a wireless camera system in the area.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28705 posts
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:31 pm to
quote:

the TinySA won't go up to 2.4GHz
The ultra version goes up to 5.3ghz I believe.
quote:

the client residential or more of a crowded business with lots of other networks?

you can force different channels in the router settings; off the cuff, I'd just try a few different ones and see if things improve.

if you wanna do it the hacker way, grab an alfa card and the aircrack-ng suite to monitor what nearby networks are using which channels. if everyone is on channel 6 or 12, go to channel 10 or whatever. I can walk you through that step if needed

I've tried all my usual tools and tweaks. The area is not too congested but changing channels makes little difference.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28705 posts
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:34 pm to
quote:

My question is what are you going to do if there is a lot of interference in the 2.4 ghz spectrum?

If it turns out to be a tenant on the radio tower then I will do whatever I can to get them to fix it.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28705 posts
Posted on 1/9/24 at 10:40 pm to
quote:

first thought was building materials because that's what I know/deal with

That was my first thought as well. The house has a metal roof which I thought might be causing some reflective interference or something. Not sure if that is even a thing. Aside from that construction looks pretty typical - stick built, sheetrock and some wood paneling, brick facade.

I've dealt with a lot of WiFi setups and what I'm seeing here is way beyond anything I would expect.
quote:

the radio interference thing reminds me of the issue along essen between the interstates completely obliterating cell coverage. I think it was eventually found out to be an issue with a wireless camera system in the area.

I think I've got a similar situation on my hands.
Posted by GrizzlyAlloy
Member since Aug 2020
1637 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 9:20 am to
Something around college drive completely disconnects my bluetooth wireless android auto puck.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28705 posts
Posted on 1/11/24 at 9:41 am to
I think there is a lot of "leaky" wireless equipment out there blasting little pockets of radio waves in certain places. Even if it's not exactly in the 2.4ghz range like wifi/bluetooth/etc the signals can still overwhelm that type of gear if they're strong enough.
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28705 posts
Posted on 1/12/24 at 9:12 am to
The TinySA Ultra came in last night, and I've had a little time to play with it. It's pretty cool. Given that it costs 10X less than a "decent" unit and maybe 100X less than a higher end one, I wasn't expecting to be blown away but I am impressed with what it can do.

I still have a lot to learn, but the gist of it is you set the frequency window you want to look at and let it eat. There are a number of different calcs that it can run, and the most useful for me is "max hold". If you don't do that you just see spikes flashing around the chart. With max hold the spikes eventually build up into nice looking curves centered on the signal frequency like you might see on a smartphone wifi analyzer app. But unlike the phone apps that only show real wifi signals, this thing shows everything it sees in the range. For example, I gave it a few seconds to analyze my home wifi and it was a nice, clean signal, then I ran the microwave and I could see all the noise it put out. Pretty neat.

This thing is obviously not very powerful given the low price, so the scan speed is very dependent on the range and resolution you choose. If I look at everything from 0hz to 6ghz, it takes a few seconds per pass so it takes it a long time to build up signal spikes.

Anyway, I can pick out a bunch of TV and radio stations, cell phone bands, aeronautical comms, etc so it's pretty fun to play around with. It's crazy how much radiation we are beaming everywhere.

It probably won't help me pinpoint the exact source of interference, but I think it might help me determine whether there is something obviously interfering with wifi.
Posted by Stexas
SWLA
Member since May 2013
6000 posts
Posted on 1/12/24 at 4:33 pm to
I’ve been wondering about a dead spot in my house for years and I never even considered that it was RF interference…. I’m such a dolt. I have a 3600 sqft home built in the 60s and I have excellent coverage everywhere except the end of the house near the carport, even though it’s relatively close to my AP. I have lots of kitchen appliances and an alarm control panel and until this thread I never even considered RF interference. Thank you!
Posted by td1
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2015
2833 posts
Posted on 1/12/24 at 4:54 pm to
Once you narrow it down to interference, hook it up to a yagi and find the direction of the interference. If it’s the hospital, call their IT and see what they can do, worst case file a complaint with the FCC.
Posted by junkfunky
Member since Jan 2011
33875 posts
Posted on 1/12/24 at 5:34 pm to
quote:

worst case file a complaint with the FCC.


Pretty sure that's what it took to get the cellular dead spot on Essen fixed.
Posted by blue_morrison
Member since Jan 2013
5124 posts
Posted on 1/17/24 at 11:34 pm to
Could these find an Airtag transmitting?
Posted by Korkstand
Member since Nov 2003
28705 posts
Posted on 1/18/24 at 7:08 am to
Probably not. My guess is airtags transmit in very short bursts whereas the tinysa is good for seeing steady transmissions.

Not a ringing endorsement for airtags though if you can't find one.
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