- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Opinions on home audio revamp
Posted on 12/6/24 at 11:49 am
Posted on 12/6/24 at 11:49 am
I'm looking to redo the audio in my house. Not looking to do anything crazy for surround sound but just want good quality and multi zone control.
Current setup:
Onyx receiver single zone
3 Proficient Audio DVC 6 1/2 ceiling mounts inside (1 in living room, 1 in dining room and 1 in kitchen)
3 Proficient Audio DVC 6 1/2 ceiling mounts outside under patio
Bose sound bar and sub
Options:
1 - Just replace the receiver with something like a Juke 6 and have full zone control
2 - Juke or similar with better speakers
3 - Scrap it all and go with Sonos ceiling mounts (3 inside, 3 outside on 2 amps) pitch the Bose and also get a Sonos soundbar and sub. If I go this route is it worth it to go up the the 8" speakers over the 6"?
4 - other options i'm not thinking about?
Current setup:
Onyx receiver single zone
3 Proficient Audio DVC 6 1/2 ceiling mounts inside (1 in living room, 1 in dining room and 1 in kitchen)
3 Proficient Audio DVC 6 1/2 ceiling mounts outside under patio
Bose sound bar and sub
Options:
1 - Just replace the receiver with something like a Juke 6 and have full zone control
2 - Juke or similar with better speakers
3 - Scrap it all and go with Sonos ceiling mounts (3 inside, 3 outside on 2 amps) pitch the Bose and also get a Sonos soundbar and sub. If I go this route is it worth it to go up the the 8" speakers over the 6"?
4 - other options i'm not thinking about?
2
Posted on 12/7/24 at 11:33 pm to billjamin
Questions:
1. How is everything hooked up right now? That’s 6 dual voice coil speakers, which is… 12 channels of amplification? Or do you have the inputs jumped out in parallel?
2. I’m assuming you have all of the distributed speakers powered from the receiver, but what about the soundbar? Are you running that through a pre out on the receiver or what?
3. Are you using the receiver for input switching?
4. Do any of the ceiling speakers need to function as surround channels or anything? I’m guessing no since you said only one in living room.
My immediate thought is that the Juke 6 looks like a pretty great solution. If you’re an iPhone user, the fact that each zone is its own AirPlay device makes things much more seamless (no need to use the Juke app much once you get it set up). Otherwise you’re basically in the same boat you would be in with any other multi-zone setup.
One downside is only 40W per channel (@ 8 ohms). You can probably compare that to your current receiver to see if you think that’s an issue or not. OTOH, the fact that the amp actually has 12 channels of amplification is an added bonus. So if you’re currently running those DVC speakers with the voice coils wired in parallel, you can actually use them in stereo as intended. Or leave them the way they are if you don’t want to pull the additional wire (if you do this you’ll want to make sure you have those zones set to mono on the amp).
1. How is everything hooked up right now? That’s 6 dual voice coil speakers, which is… 12 channels of amplification? Or do you have the inputs jumped out in parallel?
2. I’m assuming you have all of the distributed speakers powered from the receiver, but what about the soundbar? Are you running that through a pre out on the receiver or what?
3. Are you using the receiver for input switching?
4. Do any of the ceiling speakers need to function as surround channels or anything? I’m guessing no since you said only one in living room.
My immediate thought is that the Juke 6 looks like a pretty great solution. If you’re an iPhone user, the fact that each zone is its own AirPlay device makes things much more seamless (no need to use the Juke app much once you get it set up). Otherwise you’re basically in the same boat you would be in with any other multi-zone setup.
One downside is only 40W per channel (@ 8 ohms). You can probably compare that to your current receiver to see if you think that’s an issue or not. OTOH, the fact that the amp actually has 12 channels of amplification is an added bonus. So if you’re currently running those DVC speakers with the voice coils wired in parallel, you can actually use them in stereo as intended. Or leave them the way they are if you don’t want to pull the additional wire (if you do this you’ll want to make sure you have those zones set to mono on the amp).
Posted on 12/8/24 at 4:18 pm to lostinbr
quote:
1. How is everything hooked up right now? That’s 6 dual voice coil speakers, which is… 12 channels of amplification? Or do you have the inputs jumped out in parallel?
It's a mess from the previous owner. Basically all running off the front and rear channels on the receiver. Thats why i'm looking to completely redo it.
quote:
2. I’m assuming you have all of the distributed speakers powered from the receiver, but what about the soundbar? Are you running that through a pre out on the receiver or what?
Correct. The sound bar is coming off the TV. I do have an optical line run form the TV to the receiver.
quote:
3. Are you using the receiver for input switching?
No, just to drive to ceiling speakers.
quote:
4. Do any of the ceiling speakers need to function as surround channels or anything? I’m guessing no since you said only one in living room.
Nope just need them for whole house audio.
quote:
My immediate thought is that the Juke 6 looks like a pretty great solution
That or just going all Sonos so i can sync all the sound are my leading options. If i go the Juke route I'll still need to get a new soundbar because I hate this POS Bose. And i'll probably upgrade speakers too.
Posted on 12/8/24 at 8:53 pm to billjamin
Long post ahead…
One thing to keep in mind if you go with the Juke is that there’s no optical input. Looks like it can accept either AirPlay, Bluetooth, or analog (RCA with a USB adapter). I think most (if not all) smart TV’s have Bluetooth output nowadays, but AFAIK all either disable the other digital outputs (eARC/optical) entirely or force them to 2.0 PCM. So that part gets a bit tricky.
You can work around it with an optical converter or an HDMI eARC audio extractor, but every component adds more potential for discrepancies in audio processing latency between the components. Which brings me to…
So I assume what you’re talking about here is the difficulty getting the zone speakers synchronized with your soundbar. This is a legit problem in the home audio world any time you’re using multiple devices with digital signal formats (HDMI, optical, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc.).
The problem is that every decoder, converter, DAC, etc. in the system has its own processing latency. When you have a single device like an AVR doing all of the processing, that device automatically delays its analog outputs (whether line level or speaker level) to match the path with the most latency. As soon as you split a digital signal to multiple devices that goes out the window. That’s especially true if you’re using a combination of formats like 2.0 PCM over optical + Dolby Digital over HDMI eARC.
Even if you have an RCA out somewhere, it doesn’t really alleviate this with the Juke because the analog is being converted back to digital at the input. It’s probably a dealbreaker for the Juke setup if having the soundbar synchronized with the zone speakers is really important to you.
At that point you really need one device/system managing everything. This is definitely one area where using Sonos has a leg up.
So full disclosure, I kind of hate soundbars. I’ll take a discreet LCR + sub or 5.1 setup with a quality center channel over a soundbar any day. Problem in your case is that a discreet speaker setup requires an AVR.
That being said, Sonos stuff is pretty pricey. A sub + soundbar + 6 in-ceiling speakers might cost you $4k+. For that price you could buy a Denon AVR-X4800H ($2,100) and have:
- 5.1 audio in the main listening area
- 2.0 audio in zone 2*
- 2.0 audio in zone 3*
..all from the AVR, without any external amplification and without any synchronization issues. You can also play separate sources between the main zone and zones 2/3.
*Note that this setup would give you 4 amp channels for 6 speakers / 12 voice coils in your current setup. The amps are rated for 4-16 ohms. It will take some thought to get the impedance and zones correct. I have some thoughts but it really depends whether the individual voice coils are 4 ohms or 8 ohms. I would put a meter on them and check.
And you’d still have like $2k to spend on your living room speakers (I would look at ELAC stuff if I were building a 5.1 system in that price range).
This would give you way better living room audio than a soundbar, and a fairly easy-to-use multi-room audio platform (HEOS), albeit with a little less control over individual speaker levels since the speakers would be grouped.
Alternatively you could buy the much cheaper AVR-X1800H (about $600) and some number of Denon HS2 stereo HEOS amplifiers ($350 each), which would actually give you more amp channels and flexibility (you can place the HEOS amps anywhere) for less money.
To me, that’s probably the alternative that you’re overlooking. Denon’s HEOS ecosystem is a solid Sonos competitor IMO.
Before you replace the speakers, I would recommend wiring at least one of them correctly to see how it actually sounds. By “correctly” I mean with one voice coil wired to the left channel and the other wired to the right channel. Based on your description of how it’s set up now, I kind of doubt that’s how they are hooked up. You’ll also want to make sure your receiver is set to stereo (not multi-mono) and that you have the polarity properly matched on each voice coil.
You should be able to do this with your current receiver, and it should give you a better idea of how those speakers are supposed to sound.
quote:
I do have an optical line run form the TV to the receiver.
One thing to keep in mind if you go with the Juke is that there’s no optical input. Looks like it can accept either AirPlay, Bluetooth, or analog (RCA with a USB adapter). I think most (if not all) smart TV’s have Bluetooth output nowadays, but AFAIK all either disable the other digital outputs (eARC/optical) entirely or force them to 2.0 PCM. So that part gets a bit tricky.
You can work around it with an optical converter or an HDMI eARC audio extractor, but every component adds more potential for discrepancies in audio processing latency between the components. Which brings me to…
quote:
just going all Sonos so i can sync all the sound
So I assume what you’re talking about here is the difficulty getting the zone speakers synchronized with your soundbar. This is a legit problem in the home audio world any time you’re using multiple devices with digital signal formats (HDMI, optical, Bluetooth, WiFi, etc.).
The problem is that every decoder, converter, DAC, etc. in the system has its own processing latency. When you have a single device like an AVR doing all of the processing, that device automatically delays its analog outputs (whether line level or speaker level) to match the path with the most latency. As soon as you split a digital signal to multiple devices that goes out the window. That’s especially true if you’re using a combination of formats like 2.0 PCM over optical + Dolby Digital over HDMI eARC.
Even if you have an RCA out somewhere, it doesn’t really alleviate this with the Juke because the analog is being converted back to digital at the input. It’s probably a dealbreaker for the Juke setup if having the soundbar synchronized with the zone speakers is really important to you.
At that point you really need one device/system managing everything. This is definitely one area where using Sonos has a leg up.
quote:
If i go the Juke route I'll still need to get a new soundbar because I hate this POS Bose.
So full disclosure, I kind of hate soundbars. I’ll take a discreet LCR + sub or 5.1 setup with a quality center channel over a soundbar any day. Problem in your case is that a discreet speaker setup requires an AVR.
That being said, Sonos stuff is pretty pricey. A sub + soundbar + 6 in-ceiling speakers might cost you $4k+. For that price you could buy a Denon AVR-X4800H ($2,100) and have:
- 5.1 audio in the main listening area
- 2.0 audio in zone 2*
- 2.0 audio in zone 3*
..all from the AVR, without any external amplification and without any synchronization issues. You can also play separate sources between the main zone and zones 2/3.
*Note that this setup would give you 4 amp channels for 6 speakers / 12 voice coils in your current setup. The amps are rated for 4-16 ohms. It will take some thought to get the impedance and zones correct. I have some thoughts but it really depends whether the individual voice coils are 4 ohms or 8 ohms. I would put a meter on them and check.
And you’d still have like $2k to spend on your living room speakers (I would look at ELAC stuff if I were building a 5.1 system in that price range).
This would give you way better living room audio than a soundbar, and a fairly easy-to-use multi-room audio platform (HEOS), albeit with a little less control over individual speaker levels since the speakers would be grouped.
Alternatively you could buy the much cheaper AVR-X1800H (about $600) and some number of Denon HS2 stereo HEOS amplifiers ($350 each), which would actually give you more amp channels and flexibility (you can place the HEOS amps anywhere) for less money.
To me, that’s probably the alternative that you’re overlooking. Denon’s HEOS ecosystem is a solid Sonos competitor IMO.
quote:
And i'll probably upgrade speakers too.
Before you replace the speakers, I would recommend wiring at least one of them correctly to see how it actually sounds. By “correctly” I mean with one voice coil wired to the left channel and the other wired to the right channel. Based on your description of how it’s set up now, I kind of doubt that’s how they are hooked up. You’ll also want to make sure your receiver is set to stereo (not multi-mono) and that you have the polarity properly matched on each voice coil.
You should be able to do this with your current receiver, and it should give you a better idea of how those speakers are supposed to sound.
Posted on 12/10/24 at 11:32 pm to lostinbr
No need to mix up home theatre with whole home audio.
Whole home always uses a right and left channel for every ceiling speaker. It’s been this way for 40 years. Is it silly now that we’re in the digital age and could just process mono channels? Sure but things change slowly.
The goal with these systems is pleasant background music for hanging out at the pool or having family gatherings. It is not to rock out or hear fidelity. Fidelity requires knowing where the listener is and these systems cater to people moving around.
All 12 channels would be used for the 6 speakers. Ideally the system could control each zone independently.
Think of quality just a hair above toe 70v commercial systems used by larger bars and restaurants and much easier to adjust as you have gain options instead of transformer taps.
Whole home always uses a right and left channel for every ceiling speaker. It’s been this way for 40 years. Is it silly now that we’re in the digital age and could just process mono channels? Sure but things change slowly.
The goal with these systems is pleasant background music for hanging out at the pool or having family gatherings. It is not to rock out or hear fidelity. Fidelity requires knowing where the listener is and these systems cater to people moving around.
All 12 channels would be used for the 6 speakers. Ideally the system could control each zone independently.
Think of quality just a hair above toe 70v commercial systems used by larger bars and restaurants and much easier to adjust as you have gain options instead of transformer taps.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 6:56 am to billjamin
The big question here is how are all of the speakers wired? If they are all home runned it's good. If they are wired in series (speaker to speaker to speaker, etc) you're sort of fricked. Every speaker in the chain will play softer that the previous speaker. Unless you are using an impendance matching speakers selector currently I suspect that they are wired in series.
Posted on 12/12/24 at 3:01 pm to VABuckeye
quote:
If they are all home runned it's good
All home runned at the receiver thank god. I'm going to play with it some thing weekend but it's looking like we're going all Sonos since the wife saw it at a friends house and liked it.
Posted on 12/12/24 at 3:17 pm to billjamin
Good to hear. Series wiring sucks balls.
Posted on 12/13/24 at 5:24 pm to billjamin
If you’re going with Sonos, Amazon echos may be a solid alternative for 1/7th the price. The full Echos are on sale for $50 right now and they sync up perfectly for whole home. Just have to go into the Alexa app and put them all in a group.
Posted on 12/17/24 at 2:11 pm to Dallaswho
quote:
If you’re going with Sonos, Amazon echos may be a solid alternative for 1/7th the price. The full Echos are on sale for $50 right now and they sync up perfectly for whole home. Just have to go into the Alexa app and put them all in a group.
Ended up going all Sonos after the wife liked it.
Installed 2 amps, 6 8" in-ceiling speakers and the Ultra Arc soundbar and sub this weekend. Grabbed a couple of the Roam 2 speakers as well and honestly couldn't be happier with how it sounds and the ability to sync across all speakers. The Roams do a good job of letting me supplement some sound in areas when we have people over so that was kind of the final push over the top. It wasn't cheap, but it works great and she's happy.
Posted on 1/14/25 at 6:57 am to billjamin
Bump bc I have a similar question.
Moving into a house that was wired for speakers. Some of the speakers were taken out and some are large speakers in the wall that my wife wants out bc they look rough.
I like the idea of being able to play music throughout the house and on the patio and by the pool. But I'm not looking for unreal quality and I don't need or want surround sound for TV.
Is the simplest thing to pull the speaker wire into the wall, patch the holes, and buy a hunch of Alexas to scatter around the house?
Moving into a house that was wired for speakers. Some of the speakers were taken out and some are large speakers in the wall that my wife wants out bc they look rough.
I like the idea of being able to play music throughout the house and on the patio and by the pool. But I'm not looking for unreal quality and I don't need or want surround sound for TV.
Is the simplest thing to pull the speaker wire into the wall, patch the holes, and buy a hunch of Alexas to scatter around the house?
Page 1 of 1
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News