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re: Brand new TV isn't showing the quality picture I expected

Posted on 5/27/14 at 3:36 pm to
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
81183 posts
Posted on 5/27/14 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

From the descriptions here, it may be the 720p I'm getting from Cox, which is pretty disappointing if that's what I'm stuck with on this new tv.


one more thought. when i purchased my onkyo, it defaulted to some kind of 'image optimization' crap..i can't even remember what it was called.

looked like hell and i thought my tv was going out.

when i found it, it was a simple setting on/off and the picture immediately looked perfect again.

so, i guess what i'm saying is maybe there's a factory setting you missed in the CNET calibration process you went through..maybe its not even your TV at all but your AVR.

are you running cable directly into tv or through an AVR?
Posted by Books
BR
Member since Jun 2005
11174 posts
Posted on 5/27/14 at 4:29 pm to
Cable to the STB from Cox, new HDMI from the box to the TV

I set the box to 1080i, which is the highest it offers.
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
81183 posts
Posted on 5/27/14 at 5:00 pm to
quote:

set the box to 1080i, which is the highest it offers.


i was just about to go there.

are you SURE its set up correctly? I remember the older comcast boxes had multiple settings you could only get to by turning the settop box off and changing some settings around regarding the output.

1080i sounds right..but i don't know..
Posted by Spock's Eyebrow
Member since May 2012
12300 posts
Posted on 5/27/14 at 5:23 pm to
quote:

I set the box to 1080i, which is the highest it offers.


That means the box is doing the scaling from 720p. It is possible the TV could do a better job, but that means configuring the box to pass through the signal for whatever channel it is on, and TVs typically don't switch between 720p and 1080i instantaneously and seamlessly, so I don't really recommend it. You could try it just to see, though. Note that increasing Sharpness on the TV is likely to make it worse, as it will introduce ringing artifacts; on many TVs, it should be set to zero, which means "no added sharpness", which normally is what you want.

You said earlier you went from 42" to 60", so naturally the larger set is going to look less sharp at the same viewing distance, unless you're so far away it evens out. You also complained about ESPN, and that's definitely a 720p channel. Here's a list of 720p/1080i channels from 2010, but I believe it's still accurate:

LINK

As for plugging in other people's settings, that might work OK for the high level controls, but you can set Brightness/Contrast/Color/Tint/Sharpness yourself with a pattern disc like AVS HD 709, which is free and also available as .mp4 files. I think Samsung has a blue-only mode, so you wouldn't need a filter to set Color. If you want a valid calibration of the low level controls like White Balance, CMS, Gamma, etc, you need a meter and software, or hire a pro to do it for you if you don't want to tackle the learning curve. Plugging in settings obtained for other TVs (same model, of course) is likely to make things worse or simply give you different errors than you started with:

LINK

That article tested plasmas, but LCDs are subject to the same variations.

Besides the free AVS pattern set, lots of people like Disney WoW. If you choose to set up the TV yourself, you have to learn how to use the patterns, which means RTFM. Perhaps the most confusing thing is that the Brightness control is for setting the black level, while Contrast is for setting the white level. LCDs have an additional Backlight setting which controls the overall light output, and LED-backlit sets that do local dimming have controls for that. There are usually a bunch of gimmicky features that need to be turned off.
Posted by Srbtiger06
Member since Apr 2006
28406 posts
Posted on 5/27/14 at 5:27 pm to
You can get a huge boost in quality from one of those monster surge protectors.

Just run your coax through that. It has a 3Ghz vox boost of your signal and will decode it to 4k (if your TV will handle it).

ETA: for coax run from wall to monster surge protector to cable box.

Just pick one up at the best buy. They aren't much, like $80.
This post was edited on 5/27/14 at 5:29 pm
Posted by SG_Geaux
Beautiful St George, LA
Member since Aug 2004
78735 posts
Posted on 5/27/14 at 5:35 pm to
quote:

You can get a huge boost in quality from one of those monster surge protectors.

Just run your coax through that. It has a 3Ghz vox boost of your signal and will decode it to 4k (if your TV will handle it).

ETA: for coax run from wall to monster surge protector to cable box.

Just pick one up at the best buy. They aren't much, like $80.



Just IGNORE the above.


If gaming looks great then the settings HAVE to be in the cable box or you just have a shitty cable signal.
This post was edited on 5/27/14 at 5:37 pm
Posted by ILikeLSUToo
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2008
18018 posts
Posted on 5/27/14 at 5:58 pm to
quote:

If gaming looks great then the settings HAVE to be in the cable box or you just have a shitty cable signal.


Yes, I'm inclined to believe the problem lies between the cox box and the panel, most likely with scaling/upconverting.

Found a succinct explanation on LifeHacker:
quote:

Essentially, when you're dealing with interlaced video you're really only seeing half the resolution because the image is split into two fields that alternate very quickly. This tricks our eyes into seeing the full image even when it's not being displayed at the same time. This was very useful for overcoming bandwidth limitations in the early days of standard definition. Now we can display progressive video (the "p" in 720p and 1080p) which shows us the full image in every frame. With 720p video, you get 720 lines of horizontal resolution in each frame. With 1080i video, you only get half of 1,080 lines of resolution (meaning 540) in each frame. In many cases this isn't a big deal, but it starts to show up in interlaced artifacts during high amounts of motion in any given frame. Basically, objects in fast motion will look like they're smearing cross the screen instead of looking natural. There are also numerous issues that can arise when displaying interlaced footage on progressive displays like HDTVs, for example. For a full run-down of what is a pretty complicated subject, be sure to watch the video above. While 1080p is definitely your best bet in terms of highest resolution, don't think that 1080i is just as ideal because the number's the same. Choosing a progressive resolution like 720p will look a lot nicer.


I'd try setting the cox box to 720p and see how scaling is handled vs. 1080i (comparing the same content on the same channel). 1080i in general can look crappy as well, and the interlacing is probably more exaggerated/noticeable on a big TV.


Also, saw this handy graph on the same page

This post was edited on 5/27/14 at 6:03 pm
Posted by SG_Geaux
Beautiful St George, LA
Member since Aug 2004
78735 posts
Posted on 5/27/14 at 6:02 pm to
Pretty sure my Cisco box outputs whatever the native resolution of the channel is.
Posted by HubbaBubba
F_uck Joe Biden, TX
Member since Oct 2010
46600 posts
Posted on 5/27/14 at 7:20 pm to
Try these calibration settings:


--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Backlight: 7
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: G50/R50

Picture Size submenu:
Picture Size: Screen Fit
Position: [no change]

Auto Adjustment submenu: [Grayed out]

3D submenu: N/A

PIP: N/A

Advanced settings submenu:
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black tone: Off
Flesh tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color space: Custom
White Balance: [see below]
10p White Balance: On
Gamma: +1
Expert Pattern: Off
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]
Black Enhancer: Off

Color Space submenu:
Color Space: Custom
Red: Red 46, Green 0, Blue 1
Green: Red 4, Green 56, Blue 2
Blue: Red 3, Green 0, Blue 50
Yellow: Red 50, Green 50, Blue 2
Cyan: Red 6, Green 52, Blue 52
Magenta: Red 48, Green 0, Blue 50

White balance submenu:
R-Offset: 25
G-Offset: 26
B-Offset: 25
R-Gain: 22
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 26

10p White Balance submenu:
Interval 1: Red -1, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 2: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 3: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 4: Red +3, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 5: Red +1, Green -1, Blue 0
Interval 6: Red 0, Green -2, Blue -1
Interval 7: Red 0, Green -2, Blue 0
Interval 8: Red -1, Green -2, Blue -1
Interval 9: Red 0, Green -1, Blue 0
Interval 10: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI black level: Normal [grayed out]
Film mode: Auto 1
Auto Motion Plus: Custom
Smart LED: Standard
Cinema Black: On

Auto Motion Plus submenu:
Blur reduction: 10
Judder reduction: 0
LED Clear Motion: On

-- System menu
Eco Solution submenu:
Energy Saving: Off
Eco Sensor: Off

LINK
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