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re: UCL Round of 16 - 1st Week Discussion/Match Day(s) Thread
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:31 pm to RandySavage
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:31 pm to RandySavage
quote:
I just can't understand how people think letting teams play, to a reasonable standard, is a bad thing. Who the hell watches a game and thinks I wish there were more fouls being called?
I want to watch football where fouls are called fouls therefore causing the players to foul less often.
quote:
Especially knowing what we know about soccer players.
I also have the crazy opinion that actually calling fouls when the player doesn't ham it up but actually tries to play through contact may help curb diving a little bit.
1
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:31 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Also I'm pretty sure Liverpool have earned two penalties from keepers this season. Neither resulted in red cards because the keeper wasn't the "last man." Which shows that there is balance in the rule book.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:31 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:except for Howard fricking Webb, that would have consistently been a straight red.
I want textbook fouls to be called and punished appropriately. And I want the referee to be consistent. I don't think that's too much to ask.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:32 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Who the hell watches a game and thinks I wish there were more fouls being called?
Depends upon who is playing. La Liga games will turn into a circus if players are given a significant amount of latitude.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:32 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
I think Bayern was on their way to controlling the game regardless of the red card. This game looked very familiar to many games this year. Slow start, errant passes, couple of defensive brainfarts before hitting their stride.
By that point, Bayern had more possession, but I don't think Bayern were going to "control" the game 11 v 11. What was lost was Arsenal's ability to counter. There were some chances where Arsenal players outran the Bayern defenders, or had better attacking positioning. We were profligate in front of goal once again, which was unfortunate as a goal would be useful right now.
Monreal was always going to have trouble, but 11 v 11 Santi could afford to sit in deeper and only tuck in near the offensive 18. That's an adjustment he's made before. With Santi and Monreal, I don't think the floodgates would have opened up the same on the right side.
While Bayern was set in their possession game, we were set in our defensive block, where we concede possession and ride out to the half. Then we come out with energy in the second half. That's been the pattern of our games. It would have been interesting mix of styles.
At full strength I don't think Bayern and Arsenal are that far apart, surprisingly to me. This wasn't like facing Pep's Barcelona teams, not to say one was superior than the other, just that Barca in that time period were so far above us that we barely had a chance. Maybe it's because we've progressed as a team.
We still have a major problem with mobility in the defensive midfield, where we signed Flamini as a stop gap. But it's been a need since Song left. Hopefully we can aim to fill it this off-season.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:33 pm to Dandy Lion
would have been an interesting second half. bayern were certainly coming into the match more, but we would have posed a threat on counters. lahm vs ozil would have been interesting because javi wasn't up to the task.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:34 pm to wm72
quote:
I also have the crazy opinion that actually calling fouls when the player doesn't ham it up but actually tries to play through contact may help curb diving a little bit.
Preach on!
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:35 pm to crazy4lsu
To me, it looked like Arsenal blew their wad well before this ´incident´.
The Teutons were settling in.
The Teutons were settling in.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:36 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
This wasn't like facing Pep's Barcelona teams
Watching Bayern so far this year --and I still think they're the best in Europe -- they don't strike the same fear that Jupp Hotcake's teams did with that suffocating pressure and straight to the jugular attack off of it.
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 9:45 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:41 pm to RandySavage
quote:
I just can't understand how people think letting teams play, to a reasonable standard, is a bad thing. Who the hell watches a game and thinks I wish there were more fouls being called? Especially knowing what we know about soccer players.
I certainly don't, but the right fouls needs to be called appropriately. In this analysis of Webb, he swallowed his whistle to detrimental effect, which is the problem. Let's say Webb let's an early foul go which could be a yellow fifteen minutes later. The same player makes the same tackle later in the game, injuring an opposition player in the process. At the same time, both teams take advantage of this leniency and fouls seem to be given without regard for context.
Hell there was a game recently where Mark Clattenberg reffed a magnificent game. I think it was Arsenal-Man U game. He called the appropriate fouls, set the tone on how he was going to call the game, made sure he was in control from beginning to end. Contrast this with Webb, who calls one obvious penalty when the score is 2-0, then swallows his whistle on an equally obvious penalty at 2-1 just minutes later. Not only that, he books Gerrard for a tactical foul to end an Arsenal break, but later keeps the card in his pocket when Gerrard makes a much more blatant yellow card challenge. That type of inconsistency is infuriating, because not only is he obviously swallowing the whistle, for what end, I'm not sure, but because it also makes it appear as if the ref is in control. For me, the best type of ref finds the flow of the game, and almost makes himself invisible. What was annoying was that Webb actually made himself a talking point of the Pool-Arsenal game, by the fact that he didn't call fouls when he should have. Webb isn't letting teams play to a reasonable standard. He's officiating like a schizophrenic.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:45 pm to wm72
quote:
Watching Bayern so far this year --and I still think they're the best in Europe -- they don't strike the same fear that Jupp Hotcake's teams did with that suffocating pressure.
I thought they played well, but when I watched Bayern last year I was amazed at the mix of physicality and technique. They pressed with speed, broke with speed, and seemed content to frick your mother along the way. This year's team seems more passive, and the only player that really impressed me on the ball was Kroos, who was fantastic from the first minute. Not to say I wasn't impressed, but having watched very little Bayern this year, I expected something else. They are still an absolutely clinical team, but I miss the skull-frick stylings of last year's team.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:53 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I thought they played well, but when I watched Bayern last year I was amazed at the mix of physicality and technique. They pressed with speed, broke with speed, and seemed content to frick your mother along the way. This year's team seems more passive, and the only player that really impressed me on the ball was Kroos, who was fantastic from the first minute. Not to say I wasn't impressed, but having watched very little Bayern this year, I expected something else. They are still an absolutely clinical team, but I miss the skull-frick stylings of last year's team.
Very well put.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:56 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
By that point, Bayern had more possession, but I don't think Bayern were going to "control" the game 11 v 11.
I've seen games start like that fairly often though, against teams much worse.
quote:
At full strength I don't think Bayern and Arsenal are that far apart, surprisingly to me
I say this as respectfully as I can...I disagree. I think Arsenal is a very good team but I don't think they're elite.
I think that game was trending toward a little less extreme version of the way the second half played out. Arsenal was going to be forced to drop off and play a lot of defense. I really just don't think the Gunners have the midfield.
The reason Dortmund has always given us problems is that Klopp is a wiz at the whole counterpressing scheme and a lot of that has to do with how good Gundogan and Bender are box-to-box.
With the formation change, we put a lot of pressure on opposing teams' center mids. Instead of a 4-2-3-1 where the defending team is worrying about 1 high center mid, our 4-1-4-1 turns into a 3-4-3 or like a 2-1-4-3.
Arsenal's best chance was to win balls from the wingbacks right as possession was being built because I don't think Flamini is agile enough to handle the likes of Thiago and Kroos and start the counter.
I know a lot of this is just rambling because I can't really articulate that well right now after a few beers.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that once the game settled down it was going to be Thiago and Kroos dominating the ball almost at will, not sure Flamini is athletic enough and Wilshere is extremely talented but lacks the discipline to press his arse off without getting frustrated.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:58 pm to wm72
quote:
Watching Bayern so far this year --and I still think they're the best in Europe -- they don't strike the same fear that Jupp Hotcake's teams did with that suffocating pressure and straight to the jugular attack off of it.
You're right. They take much longer to get into a groove, which is what I'm saying. It was starting to happen. The team isn't as slow as the old Barcelona teams but the attacks come in spurts whereas last year it was blitzkrieg all of the time.
I think Bayern was on their way to just wearing down Arsenal. I don't think their midfield was going to respond well to it.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:59 pm to hendersonshands
quote:how´s his back or leg, coming along? A recurrent issue, isn´t it?
Gundogan
Posted on 2/19/14 at 10:00 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
This year's team seems more passive, and the only player that really impressed me on the ball was Kroos, who was fantastic from the first minute.
Not sure how you didn't come away impressed with Thiago. He's so damn smooth on the ball.
I think Javi was a weak link today which is disappointing because I love him but we were much better when he went to CB and Lahm moved to DM -- speaking of being impressed, Lahm is not human.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 10:01 pm to Dandy Lion
He has a back issue. Not sure how long he's out for. I wish he'd come back, love watching him play.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 10:03 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
I say this as respectfully as I can...I disagree. I think Arsenal is a very good team but I don't think they're elite.
We aren't elite yet. We could get there with the right buys. I didn't mean to imply that we were on the same level. I'm imagining this team completely healthy with Ramsey, Walcott and Gibbs, our three best runners, playing. Clearly we are a level below the best teams in the world, but I wouldn't say there are ten teams better than us in Europe. Of the teams I've seen are Bayern, Barcelona, Man City, Real, PSG, and maybe Athletico. We're clearly in the 2nd tier bracket, but we aren't terribly far. We need to buy aggressively this summer.
We're missing mobility, but Ramsey and Walcott give our counterattacking game runners that we don't have. Having elegant passers on the field does nothing if you have no one willing to run into space. We need some mobile midfield options, or the rare DM like Martinez who can hold the midfield by himself in the right system.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 10:05 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
Not sure how you didn't come away impressed with Thiago. He's so damn smooth on the ball.
He didn't destroy us like Kroos did. I was also watching on a shitty feed, so I missed plenty of intricacies.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 10:08 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I'm imagining this team completely healthy with Ramsey, Walcott and Gibbs, our three best runners, playing.
Yeah, we were without Schweinsteiger and Ribery. I'd also love to eventually have Badstuber back since Jerome can be insane.
quote:
Clearly we are a level below the best teams in the world, but I wouldn't say there are ten teams better than us in Europe.
Yeah, I agree with that.
quote:
We're missing mobility, but Ramsey and Walcott give our counterattacking game runners that we don't have. Having elegant passers on the field does nothing if you have no one willing to run into space. We need some mobile midfield options, or the rare DM like Martinez who can hold the midfield by himself in the right system.
Arsenal has to address the DM spot IMO. I know a lot of people want Arsene to buy a striker but I think DM is much more of a need. You need someone who can do the dirty work for Özil.
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