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re: UCL Round of 16 - 1st Week Discussion/Match Day(s) Thread
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:48 pm to joey barton
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:48 pm to joey barton
exactly, keepers would make no effort whatsoever to play the ball knowing they would have a chance to stop a pen
3
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:49 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Yeah by the rule it's a red. Still a shitty rule in that it pretty much destroys not just one game but an entire CL tie. Plus Robben's foot was really, really high and the Pole in Goal ducks to get out of the way. You can tell he was trying to avoid the collision.
By the rules of the game is it a red? I guess. Well, probably. Robben's not going straight towards the goal and the ball goes well wide of the net out of play. I'm not sure if that's part of the criteria for a "goal scoring opportunity," though.
That said I think the rule needs to be tweaked. Red + PK is just too much. I think it's a shame that a mistake, and usually one that isn't intentional, can completely destroy a tie. I think yellow + PK would be better, but I'm sure there are legitimate ways to rebuff that argument as well.
Second highlight video is the best:
LINK
By the rules of the game is it a red? I guess. Well, probably. Robben's not going straight towards the goal and the ball goes well wide of the net out of play. I'm not sure if that's part of the criteria for a "goal scoring opportunity," though.
That said I think the rule needs to be tweaked. Red + PK is just too much. I think it's a shame that a mistake, and usually one that isn't intentional, can completely destroy a tie. I think yellow + PK would be better, but I'm sure there are legitimate ways to rebuff that argument as well.
Second highlight video is the best:
LINK
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:49 pm to PTBob
Yup
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:50 pm to PTBob
quote:
exactly, keepers would make no effort whatsoever to play the ball knowing they would have a chance to stop a pen
I would guess between 80 and 90% of the time the much greater chance comes from the penalty.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:51 pm to PTBob
quote:
exactly, keepers would make no effort whatsoever to play the ball knowing they would have a chance to stop a pen
I guess you have to weigh the options.
Destroy a game due to an unintentional foul or let the game play on with a PK and a yellow. I prefer the latter option.
quote:
I would guess between 80 and 90% of the time the much greater chance comes from the penalty.
And I can't believe I'm saying this but I actually agree with Randy here.
Look at all the variables that would go into determining whether or not Robben scores that. Does he make the right touch? Is it towards goal or away from it? Does a defender get back in time to stop him? Does he fluff his shot?
90% chance of goal on a PK sounds like better odds to me honestly.
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 8:53 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:52 pm to cwil177
quote:
Red + PK is just too much.
I disagree. Today was the perfect example.
Robben gets taken down on a potential tap-in scoring opportunity. Keeper theoretically sees yellow. Alaba misses. Where exactly was Arsenal punished? They weren't. That's the point.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:53 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
I'm not convinced that was a tap in, but we can disagree.
ETA: It's not as if he was running at an empty net and Sczc took him down from behind. That's an obvious red. I think the ref should be able to decide if it's a red or yellow card worthy offense. Right now they have to automatically call red and I don't think all goalkeeper fouls are created equal.
ETA: It's not as if he was running at an empty net and Sczc took him down from behind. That's an obvious red. I think the ref should be able to decide if it's a red or yellow card worthy offense. Right now they have to automatically call red and I don't think all goalkeeper fouls are created equal.
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 8:57 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:53 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
Changing the rule is tricky. The rule as it stands right now makes it a last ditch sort of thing. It does suck for the team that gets the card, but it's apart of the game. You want to keep the rule to keep keepers honest, but you don't want the rule to ruin the game. You have to both disincentivize a behavior while at the same time mitigating the consequences if such an action takes place. That's a hell of a quandary. It has to be one way or the other, as the potential for abuse can also adversely affect a game, in an opposite, but equal way.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:55 pm to cwil177
quote:
potential tap-in
Robben was around the keep. He has to be given the benefit of the doubt that he could have gotten to it.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:57 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
So is that chance > 90% or < 90%? I say less, and thus a PK is a better goal scoring opportunity. Again I think the refs should have more discretion to decide if it's red or yellow worthy.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:58 pm to cwil177
Your homerism shrouds sound judgement.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:59 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Changing the rule is tricky. The rule as it stands right now makes it a last ditch sort of thing. It does suck for the team that gets the card, but it's apart of the game. You want to keep the rule to keep keepers honest, but you don't want the rule to ruin the game. You have to both disincentivize a behavior while at the same time mitigating the consequences if such an action takes place. That's a hell of a quandary. It has to be one way or the other, as the potential for abuse can also adversely affect a game, in an opposite, but equal way.
Yeah. This. I think we need to find a healthier middle ground. Even when the red goes against the other team there is a bit of a let down because the match could have been so much more entertaining. Arsene was right, the game got boring after that red.
quote:
Your homerism shrouds sound judgement.
That's cute Dandy, it really is. Please tell us more about homerism.
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 9:00 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:59 pm to cwil177
quote:
Right now they have to automatically call red and I don't think all goalkeeper fouls are created equal.
Maybe, maybe not, but I can't imagine the shitstorm that would ensue if a ref decided only to give a yellow in that situation, ever.
In truth, this was a last man foul, and not a goalkeeper foul. Szczesny had to come out and pressure Robben, whose touch took him away from Szcznesy. While there was cover, we won't know if it would have gotten there in time. It sucks if you're an Arsenal fan. The way things go sometimes.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 8:59 pm to cwil177
quote:
usually one that isn't intentional
Yes and no. The last player is still intentionally making an out of control, desperation tackle.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:00 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
quote:
Today was the perfect example.
Robben gets taken down on a potential tap-in scoring opportunity. Keeper theoretically sees yellow. Alaba misses. Where exactly was Arsenal punished? They weren't. That's the point.
It wasn't like they took away a goal and then made Bayern take a spot kick. Robben still had plenty to do.
Arsenal are punished because the ball is put on the spot 12 yards away from the goal with no defenders able to be anywhere near the ball. If the team that receives the PK blows it that's on them.
The only time I can get on board with a red is if it's a Suarez situation where the ball is 100%going in the net without the foul/handball or whatever.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:01 pm to cwil177
quote:
Arsene was right, the game got boring after that red.
It got boring for me after the Kroos goal, but I expected them to score. It was rather even for that first 38 minutes, which was really surprising to me. I can't imagine a neutral (truly neutral) would disagree.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:02 pm to cwil177
It´s quite evident.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:04 pm to LSUSOBEAST1
It's a red because he went studs up and barreled through Robben.
Didn't even come close to the ball
Didn't even come close to the ball
This post was edited on 2/19/14 at 9:07 pm
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:05 pm to cwil177
quote:
Even when the red goes against the other team there is a bit of a let down because the match could have been so much more entertaining. Arsene was right, the game got boring after that red.
Yeah, but I think that that's part of the game. Soccer punishes you, perhaps disproportionately, for being stupid, losing focus, etc.
Posted on 2/19/14 at 9:06 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
It's a red because he went studs up and barreled through Robben.
Are you saying it would have been a yellow if his thigh or some other body part touched Robben and brought him down?
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