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re: Hillsborough-Coppers fault

Posted on 9/12/12 at 6:14 pm to
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 9/12/12 at 6:14 pm to
quote:

RandySavage


I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by being in this thread, except trying to make the board dislike you more than we already do, but what you fail to realize, or rather refuse to comprehend, is that there is no room for opinions in this case.

Decades of investigations, 400,000+ pages of documents, belated apologies and overdue confessions have revealed the truth for you: the blame is 100% on the shoulders of the law "enforcement" officials present at the stadium. You are the naive one if you continue to spew speculative, fallacious opinions on what happened that day.

Here is a link to 250+ comments, from supporters of dozens of different clubs, to illustrate that you stand alone in placing blame, however "little" you claim it to be, on the Liverpool fans that day.
This post was edited on 9/12/12 at 6:15 pm
Posted by LSUtiger17
New Orleans
Member since Mar 2009
3092 posts
Posted on 9/12/12 at 6:18 pm to
Somehow I had never heard of this, but I was born a year after it occurred. I read the wiki page for it and the whole incident is tragic. I can't imagine the guilt that those present have felt.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 9/12/12 at 6:22 pm to
quote:

quote:

“In the ambulance, I was sucking the vomit from Vicky’s throat. I couldn’t get rid of that taste for six months.

“A psychiatrist said I was either trying to hang on to the last contact with my daughters or it was guilt – I was punishing myself for not saving them.

“The hurt I suffered that day was so extreme I can’t be hurt any more.”



This is the whole story:

quote:

Tony Edwards, the only professional ambulanceman to reach the Leppings Lane end, recalled what happened outside the ground. He said: " A policeman came to my window and said, ' You can't go on the pitch, they 're still fighting'."

He went on nonetheless, but his job was made impossible by the scale of the casualties.

The memory of bodies being piled on to his ambulance, of people pleading with him to take their friends and loved ones, of the anarchy that made his job impossible, haunts him to this day.

But what haunts him most is the knowledge that he was the only paramedic trying to help. He said: "There were 42 ambulances, including mine, waiting outside the stadium. That means 80- odd trained staff could have been inside the ground. They weren't allowed in because they were told there was fighting.

"But there was no fighting. The survivors were deciding who was the priority, who we should deal with. The police weren't. We weren't . Can you imagine a rail accident where all the ambulances wait on the embankment while survivors bring the casualties up?"

Of the 94 who died that day ( 14-year-old Lee Nicol died four days later and 18-year-old Tony Bland had his life support machine turned off in March 1993) only 14 made it to hospital.

Trevor Hicks was one of the few who got a loved one into Tony Edwards' ambulance. He was trying to resuscitate his 19- year- old daughter Sarah when he spotted her 15- year- old sister Victoria being placed into the ambulance.

Trevor tried to push Sarah in alongside her but the bodies were piled high and he had to lay her back on the pitch.

He said: " The ambulance started to move away. I saw the door close and I had to make a decision in that split-second. I thought 'the fella with Sarah knows what he's doing, I'll leave her with him and another ambulance will be along in a minute'."

Another one never came and both of his girls died. Trevor, now 63, added: "In the ambulance, I was sucking the vomit from Vicky's throat. I couldn't get rid of that taste for six months.

"A psychiatrist said I was either trying to hang on to the last contact with my daughters or it was guilt - I was punishing myself for not saving them.

"The hurt I suffered that day was so extreme I can't be hurt any more."


Posted by BleedPurpleGold
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
19014 posts
Posted on 9/12/12 at 6:47 pm to
quote:

I was sucking the vomit from Vicky's throat. I couldn't get rid of that taste for six months.



Jesus Christ. This is one of the saddest things I've ever read.
Posted by PTBob
Member since Nov 2010
7103 posts
Posted on 9/12/12 at 7:24 pm to
That was intense.
Posted by LSUCanFAN
In the past
Member since Jan 2009
28097 posts
Posted on 9/12/12 at 9:15 pm to
quote:

I was sucking the vomit from Vicky's throat. I couldn't get rid of that taste for six months. Jesus Christ.
This is one of the saddest things I've ever read.

I couldn't agree more...It's just so fricking soul destroyingly sad...
Posted by BleedPurpleGold
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
19014 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 12:08 am to
Just an update:

Was watching Fox Soccer News and there was an interview with a Hillsborough supporters official and he said double jeopardy has apparently been overruled and is no longer a part of British law (I find that quite strange - but that's for another thread on the law board).

So these police officers will most likely be hit on all fronts.
Posted by WarSlamEagle
Manchester United Fan
Member since Sep 2011
24611 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 7:06 am to
Posted by The Mick
Member since Oct 2010
44906 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 8:10 am to
What exactly was the cover up?
Posted by BobLoblaw
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2011
2324 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 9:20 am to
Finally got around to reading this thread. So happy that the truth is starting to come out, it is mind boggling that the cover up lasted so long. Let's hope duckenfield spends the rest of his life rotting in a jail cell.

Randy, you should be ashamed. Please find another message board (maybe tnbhoy and gmorgans?) you contribute nothing here.
Posted by TFTC
Chicago, Il
Member since May 2010
23296 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 9:36 am to
quote:

What exactly was the cover up?



Basically, that there was a cover up, primarily by the police, to try and deflect the blame from their ineffective planning and carrying out of "crowd control" that day. And then once it was clearly obvious people were dying, their slowness to respond to help the people, which could have saved 41 of the lives.

So, they claimed it was drunken LFC fans, many without tickets, who were to blame... 116 of the 164 statements given to the police were altered or removed from the original findings...

There is also some responsibility to the FA who chose a terrible venue for the match and never bothered to check that it didn't have an up to date safety certificate.

Also, the reason most people on Merseyside will never buy the Sun,is because of the following headline they ran (left) after the aftermath that was proven to be lies... You'll see their way too late retraction in todays paper on the right...

Someone else can probably give more details... This is 23 years in the making... the truth has come out, now justice...

Here are some of the key figures in the cover up LINK

This post was edited on 9/13/12 at 9:42 am
Posted by thenry712
Zasullia, Ukraine
Member since Nov 2008
15795 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 10:02 am to
The Hillsborough disaster caused another inquest against Liverpool supporters, partly because of this tragedy occurring only four years after Heysel. In that football tragedy, Liverpool fans were almost entirely to blame, along with a crumbling venue, for the deaths of 39 fans. All English teams were banned from European club competition, causing sweeping feelings of ill will towards Liverpool supporters.

Then two years later when Liverpool fans were again involved in a stadium crush involving the deaths of 96 spectators, the English immediately had a scapegoat. Not wanting to inquire into the stadium's faulty structure or the emergency response teams, it became much easier to lay blame on the already demonized working class football fans.
This post was edited on 9/13/12 at 11:11 am
Posted by WeOnlyHateMancs
Member since Sep 2012
400 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 10:27 am to
quote:

Liverpool fans were almost entirely to blame

That's not entirely true. I have read multiple versions of this. Including ones on Juventus fan sites. The year before Heysel when Liverpool went to Rome to play the UEFA Champions Cup Semi's at Stadio Olympico. They were stabbed, attacked, slashed and beaten up by Italian ultras. The Liverpool fans who went to Heysel were prepared for the same. Before the match there was rioting by both sets of supporters. During the game rival supporters were placed side by side and Juventus fans started throwing stone missiles at the Liverpool fans, the liverpool fans retaliated and surged at the Juventus fans who now started trying to get out. In the crush a poorly built wall collapsed and 39 fans perished, 7 were Liverpool fans if I remember right. It was by chance that more Juventus fans perished, could very well have been 39 Liverpool and7 Juventus fans. Both sets of fans were equally to blame. Both fought both rioted and the actions of both were reprehensible.

quote:

All English teams were banned from European club competition

This was essentially an unilateral ban forced upon the FA and UEFA by Margaret effin Thatcher. Who was a despicable c##t by all accounts.

quote:

two years later when Liverpool fans were again involved in a stadium collapse involving the deaths of 96 spectators

It wasn't a stadium collapse at Hillsborough. It was a crush resulting from downright criminal policing. Similar to a stampede but one in which the crowd is barricaded in. No part of the stadium infrastructure collapsed or was harmed.

JFT96
This post was edited on 9/13/12 at 10:32 am
Posted by TFTC
Chicago, Il
Member since May 2010
23296 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 10:37 am to
quote:

only two years after Heysel


minor correction, 4 years...
Posted by RandySavage
9 Time Natty Winner
Member since May 2012
34863 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 10:54 am to
quote:

Randy, you should be ashamed. Please find another message board (maybe tnbhoy and gmorgans?) you contribute nothing here.


I'm not going to get into a pissing match on this thread because it's not the place, but grow up.
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 11:28 am to
quote:

In that football tragedy, Liverpool fans were almost entirely to blame,


Agreed. The venue and planning of that stadium didn't help anything though.

quote:

Not wanting to inquire into the stadium's faulty structure or the emergency response teams, it became much easier to lay blame on the already demonized working class football fans.


Exactly.
Posted by The Mick
Member since Oct 2010
44906 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 11:41 am to
Damn shame. I watched that graphic and its crazy. Were the police just letting everyone in like that or did the fans more or less overtake any police or gate personnel on staff?
Posted by LSUSOBEAST1
Member since Aug 2008
28621 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 11:47 am to
quote:

Were the police just letting everyone in like that or did the fans more or less overtake any police or gate personnel on staff?


Since the tragedy, the blame has been placed on the fans. But finally yesterday the truth was revealed. Police officers abandoned their stations and just basically opened the gates for Liverpool supporters to eneter instead of restricting and controlling where the fans go. Lead to some of the pens to reach twice the capacity.
Posted by LSUCanFAN
In the past
Member since Jan 2009
28097 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

Was watching Fox Soccer News and there was an interview with a Hillsborough supporters official and he said double jeopardy has apparently been overruled and is no longer a part of British law (I find that quite strange - but that's for another thread on the law board).

So these police officers will most likely be hit on all fronts.

that is encouraging...
Posted by LSUCanFAN
In the past
Member since Jan 2009
28097 posts
Posted on 9/13/12 at 12:20 pm to
The side-by-side Sun covers in a second perfectly encapsulate the gross negligence of the press, also the underhanded smear tactics of the Coppers
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