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re: Arsenal 2012/2013 Season Long Thread
Posted on 7/6/12 at 2:02 pm to crazy4lsu
Posted on 7/6/12 at 2:02 pm to crazy4lsu
Theo will have one good game in every 5 or 6. That wont win you trophies either. Your right we have invested a tremendous amount of time in him and for all that he has only slightly improved over the last 6 years. I think it stupid to keep such a limited footballer who's only saving grace is his pace. He doesn't track back. Cant beat a man one v one unless its the odd push and run that comes off. At times he looks brilliant but all to often he just leaves you wanting. Consistency is needed to win trophies my friend.
2
Posted on 7/6/12 at 2:08 pm to DB10_AFC
Congrats on Giroud guys, hearing that will be announced officially soon. Too bad about RVP, I hear its a done deal with city for about 35mil
Posted on 7/6/12 at 2:17 pm to DB10_AFC
quote:
Theo will have one good game in every 5 or 6.
His return says otherwise.
quote:
Your right we have invested a tremendous amount of time in him and for all that he has only slightly improved over the last 6 years.
He hasn't only slightly improved. His technique is miles better, his crossing is miles better, his positioning is miles better, and his intelligence off the ball is miles better. People like shitting on Theo without actually watching him closely.
quote:
I think it stupid to keep such a limited footballer who's only saving grace is his pace.
I think it's stupid to sell a homegrown player who has world-class pace and produces around 10 goals and 10 assists per season. Ox might become better, but we'd be back to square with a 19 year old playing on the right.
Theo is obviously a certain kind of player, but I'm not sure what people want from him. He produces as much as more heralded wingers, he's improved every season he's played, he gives us an outlet when teams try to press us, and he's homegrown. If he doesn't want to sign a new contract, fine, but acting like we won't miss him is myopic.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 2:29 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
I think it's stupid to sell a homegrown player who has world-class pace and produces around 10 goals and 10 assists per season.
This. If for no other reason than the roster limits..
You can have 17 non-homegrown players on your roster.. and up to 25 total. So if we sell him and tried to replace him with talent from another country it eats one of those 17 spots. And seeing as we definitely don't have 8 homegrown players on Arsenal's roster we should keep all the good ones we can get.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 2:30 pm to crazy4lsu
Let me simplify it for you. He goes missing during games for long stretches and quite often. If he would show up and improve his work rate people would overlook his deficiencies. And yes I do watch him closely and that is why I say when he is playing up to his potential his is amazing but he does not do this nearly enough. And as for OX becoming better, he is already a more well rounded footballer than Theo could ever dream off but don't worry OX's position will be in central midfield, luckyly for Theo.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 2:34 pm to DB10_AFC
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as for OX becoming better, he is already a more well rounded footballer than Theo
agreed that Theo has gotten alot better than he was.
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don't worry OX's position will be in central midfield, luckyly for Theo.
why do you think this?Posted on 7/6/12 at 2:48 pm to DB10_AFC
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He goes missing during games for long stretches and quite often.
Which is more often based on his service rather than anything he does himself. He's not supposed to be a 1v1 winger. He's a wide forward who is supposed to stretch play on the left side of the opposition. He needs lots of service, and it has hardly been consistent. Not only that, he often pins the LB back. We don't often give up goals from the left side because of the combination that he and Bacary have worked out. We only get in trouble when the opposition winger is getting the best of the RB, in which case Walcott's insistence on not tracking back presents some problems. Even then, it happens so rarely that the only game I can think of offhand where it was a distinct problem was the Man U game this year. Usually our right side is solid, and our left side that is weak defensively.
And I don't think people really watch him closely, or else people would realize how much he's progressed. For example, in 2007-08, whenever he played, he would often dribble the ball out of bounds because he couldn't control it at the speeds he was running. He doesn't really do that anymore, and is always a danger to get a ball in. The balls he now plays into the box are more measured now, looking for a specific player rather than hit with a lot of power.
What's going to happen without Walcott as a release is that we are going to get pressed up the field and will have no way of breaking it, because in general, we don't deal with the press very well. Part of Walcott's problem is that teams play 11 behind the ball, which gives him very little space. Against bigger teams, he'll be very valuable because they usually press us upfield, and he can destroy the press by his mere presence (see the Chelsea game from this past year).
Not only that, there is this issue of production. Is the Ox going to magically produce 10 goals and 10 assists as a 19 year old playing his first season as a starter? It's highly unlikely. Ryo won't do it, and Gervinho has the ACN again. Where are we going to get that type of production?
I really think fans are underrating how much Theo provides space for other players.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 2:56 pm to adammwilson
quote:
don't worry OX's position will be in central midfield, luckyly for Theo.
why do you think this?
Because that where he has played all through his youth and is his favored position. Wenger said the same thing. And watch our home game against AC Milan in ECL this year. He was absolutely superb.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 3:01 pm to crazy4lsu
Teams do tend defend deep against us so that would make him a specialized player, no? A rotation or super sub. Fact is he needs the ideal situation to make a difference unlike say Nani, Mata, Bale, Rues, Hazard and on and on.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 3:03 pm to DB10_AFC
we will see. He played great for England at winger. Plus, he has struggled playing D right?
What's Arsenal's midfield looking like?
What's Arsenal's midfield looking like?
Posted on 7/6/12 at 3:06 pm to DB10_AFC
quote:
Nani, Mata, Bale, Rues, Hazard and on and on.
And yet, he's produced similar stats to all of those players. We evidently come across this "ideal situation" quite a bit.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 3:24 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
he's produced similar stats to all of those players. We evidently come across this "ideal situation" quite a bit.
was thinking the same.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 3:46 pm to DB10_AFC
1) We're absolutely a worse team if Theo leaves. I understand why people were once frustrated by him, but he has unquestionably improved each season and I don't understand how people can't see that. To say he has only slightly improved is just wrong. And the guy is still only 23.
2) Don't believe the Lloris rumors guys. Typical throw crap against the wall transfer rumours.
2) Don't believe the Lloris rumors guys. Typical throw crap against the wall transfer rumours.
This post was edited on 7/6/12 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 7/6/12 at 3:51 pm to NOSA
quote:
The guy is still only 23.
which is incredible. It seems like he has been around forever.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 4:04 pm to crazy4lsu
I'm going to assume you know that stats only paint part of the picture. I have said Theo at times plays like a class player and has the potential to become such a player but how long should we wait for that to come true? It has been 6 years already. He doesn't add much to our overall play besides being a speedy counter attack specialist who I will admit is a good finisher. Its contract time for him and I don't believe he deserves the massive raise he is going looking for. If he wants to stay at current wages or with a little raise fine, but to pay him star type money would be a huge mistake. And would you really take him over Mata, Nani, or Rues?
Posted on 7/6/12 at 4:04 pm to adammwilson
Would hate to see Theo leave at such a young age.
Giroud's highlights look unreal, but I haven't watched him play much otherwise. Anyone have a prediction on how much he'll contribute? Seems like a talented finisher.
Giroud's highlights look unreal, but I haven't watched him play much otherwise. Anyone have a prediction on how much he'll contribute? Seems like a talented finisher.
This post was edited on 7/6/12 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 7/6/12 at 5:00 pm to DB10_AFC
quote:
I'm going to assume you know that stats only paint part of the picture.
Of course, but 10 goals and 10 assists a season for the last two seasons is excellent production outside of everything else. I've already outlined in detail how I think he improves the squad. I think he adds quite a bit to our overall play for this reason. He never looks to face the game head on with the ball at his feet. He is always looking for a way behind the defense. Too often our team is full of players who only want to do the former. We don't have enough players who want to do the latter. This is why he is so valuable, and why his speed and timing is more important than his technique.
quote:
I have said Theo at times plays like a class player and has the potential to become such a player but how long should we wait for that to come true? It has been 6 years already.
What? You have statistical evidence that Theo is going to become a good player or already is a good player, and yet you want to throw away the 6 years of development that we've already put into him? I hate to break it to you, but Theo was always a long term purchase. No one should have expected him to do very much until he was 21/22, which is exactly when started producing. This is madness. What is the point of buying these kids young and developing them if we just get rid of them when they are just about to realize their potential? You don't buy 16 year olds to get rid of them only 6 years later. If we sell him, some other team will profit off our hard work.
As far as wages go, I think he should be paid what he wants. There is a much stronger correlation between the wage scale and the league table than there is spending lots of money in the transfer market and the league table. I also think we should keep the players we develop.
He is already on star wages at around 70k a week. Raising that to 100k isn't that obscene, but we have players who contribute much less than he does on much more wages (Arshavin). Hell, at least he has tangible product. He's been our most productive winger since Pires/Ljungberg. His job is to produce goals and assists. He does that better than most wide players. Him asking for a raise isn't that crazy.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 5:30 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
No one should have expected him to do very much until he was 21/22, which is exactly when started producing. This is madness.
He has had 220 first team games for Arsenal. How much longer does he really need? If we give Theo a big raise don't you think other, more important players will come calling. I don't hate Theo but I also don't understand the outpouring of love for essentially a squad player. I would like to keep him as a squad player but with his contract situation and the fact that he is young and English I figured we could cash in on him. He doesn't produce consistently game to game to make him one of our top paid players. Look I'm sure you will counter with whatever point you have and good for you. The last thing I will say is that simply Walcott doesn't pass the eye test, just watch him game to game and you will see.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 5:39 pm to DB10_AFC
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He has had 220 first team games for Arsenal.
And? Young players take a long time to develop. His play the last two seasons is more than enough evidence to say he's making the next step. This is how you develop players. It often takes a long time.
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The last thing I will say is that simply Walcott doesn't pass the eye test, just watch him game to game and you will see.
I have watched him game to game since he joined us (pretty much every game). He's not a perfect player by any means. But his improvement in that time has been as drastic an improvement as any player we've brought in. He's a threat every time he's on the field. I just think your argument is myopic and lacks any real evidence. If he's good enough for Arsene, I'll trust him. I can see why Arsene wants to play him. Whether Walcott wants to stay is another story.
Posted on 7/6/12 at 5:40 pm to DB10_AFC
quote:
If we give Theo a big raise don't you think other, more important players will come calling.
Of course. All our key players should be on 100k a week or more. It's ridiculous that players like Denilson and Squillaci are on 45k a week. It's not ridiculous for players who have started lots of games (and produced) to be rewarded.
This post was edited on 7/6/12 at 5:41 pm
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