re: Without God, are all men truly equal?

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As stated, it was merely convenience that Christianity was the foremost religion among the ones he was seeking to rule over.

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Being a matter of convenience isn't important to my point.

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You could quite possibly blame a lack of moral understanding...without religious texts, what teaches us to care for and help those lesser than us? Why should we just not kill off all the weak people for more food, less carbon emissions, more for less people. Why shouldn't we do that? There's scores of people out there who contribute little to nothing to society, why should anyone feel guilty for offing these people? What stops us from killing each other?

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It's as if you've never educated yourself beyond anything not included in the Bible. Are you telling me that the only thing keeping you from murdering people you deem less valuable is a book written by primitives thousands of years ago? Sorry you're a terrible person without your mythology. Luckily, that doesn't apply to everyone.

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Where would any moral principles come from in atheism?

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The same exact place religion gets them from. Atheists simply don't claim to know where it comes from with any authority.

We all have the same rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. How high you climb after that is up to you and your natural talent and hard work.

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Honest question: if you had a button in front of you, and pushing it meant that all Christians around the world would drop dead. Would you push it?

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no, of course not. if that button did away with all religion, I'd hit it like you do an elevator button when you're in a hurry.

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i think its like most other things, you talk about what you know. i'm from a deeply religious family, on both sides. my moms parents were apostolic christian missionaries, her dad was also a minister. my dads sister is a nun. i went to catholic school my entire life, even a boarding school for few years run by nuns and brothers, where i'd wake up early and go to 6am mass a few times a week. i know christianity. very well. i know the history. i was in deep, a complete believer. I dont know nearly as much about Buddhism, Judaism, and Hinduism. I know as much about Islam as many others here, and I'm very critical of that as well. i know its extremely hard for a true christian to understand an atheist. i get that, i really do, because ive been there, and i felt the exact same way. and i was depressed as hell for a long time when i became atheist. it was devastating. i didnt want to be atheist, i liked the notion that someone was watching over me. but its not true. the more i learned about history, the more obvious that became. its just a story. its just a ridiculous story, one that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense, cobbled together from other stories about other gods, and once you can step back and look at it with a clear head, you see how insane the whole thing is. and dangerous. im very happy being atheist now. i like knowing that this one life is all i have. im a better person now than i was when i was religious. religion constantly puts divisions between people, it puts you in one group and tells you the other groups are wrong, and that they're against you. it tells you certain people are different from you, that they're worse than you. i remember, when i was maybe 10 or so, asking my mom if i should hate jews since they denied our god. thats fricked up. no child should ever think that way. but i did. because of religion. i dont help people now just because im told to, or because of a threat hanging over my head, i do it because its important to help people. i dont just sit and chant when someone is in trouble, then congratulate myself for it on facebook. i get up and i fricking help them. when i do something wrong, i have to live with that. it weighs on me. religious people just ask the ceiling for forgiveness and then they're in the clear. nothing good can come from that. this one life is all we have, and we're all in this together. its extremely important to know that. you become more kind when you think of everyone as "us" and not "us and them". youre more willing to help those who need help, because we are all each other has. its up to us.

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I love honesty.

I won't offer one of my blowhard God exists rebuttals, MS; it would be useless. "He that seeks to know God...must FIRST BELIEVE the He exists" (more Mythology ). The philosopher William James backed this up with "The Will to Believe"; positing the idea that belief is a precursor of a resultant action. No belief/faith...no action.

Supposedly, God said that "I am...the I am". The Idea of *God* comes down to a single Principle. Such being based on what is the Essence of Consciousness; I.e., Self Awareness...Descarte's "I know that I am". What IS Consciousness.

It is by no means a stretch to believe that the very essence of Energy is Consciousness; that Energy - in it's most complex of manifest forms - is relatively conscious. Less complex forms = less aware...more complex forms = more aware. Aware of Knowledge; with Knowledge being Power. Total unified Energy = equates to total Knowledge/Power/Self Awareness.

The dissolution of our limited conscious form (me and you) and death, being the expansion of that energy back into the Energy Reservoir would not be a great tradgedy of eternal loss, if that loss was only temporal. And that in some time, way shape or form, the PARTICULAR and specific manifestation of feelings/energy which defined the 'you'...happened 'again'. The odds of that are virtually guaranteed, assuming Infinity.

Good luck, MS. You'll live a good life with the principles you hold dear. Just without that comfort of not losing that which love and hold dear. We can love Mother Nature and the Universe...but minus it being Conscious...it can never love us back...nor be little more than the cold indifference which you find so repugnant in imperfect...'Christians'.

Gotta work.

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no, of course not. if that button did away with all religion, I'd hit it like you do an elevator button when you're in a hurry.

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PS...judging the essential Truths of Christianity...based on the imperfect beliefs and actions of it's followers...would be unsound reasoning. The very essence of Christianity is the need for Mercy. You are right...lend no REAL love and mercy...receive none.

Good luck.

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is that seriously a real question?

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Yep.

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because i dont want to.

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Why not? Surely, if Christian evangelism is "one of the most evil things you can imagine" then surely we would be much better off without them.

Is it perhaps because you, personally, would not want to be the one to push the button? Guilty conscience, maybe?

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because i dont need to be threatened in order to show basic human decency to people.

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When did I ever mention that?

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btw, theres a guy one page who wrote...

I actually wish we could be like nature intended for us sometimes. It would be to wipe out the epidemic of liberalism and Islam in a single nature normal destruction. Alas, I am a Christian so I don't really want that to happen. (Somewhat lol, I am human after all)

funny how youre not asking him this question.

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Good point. Yes, go ahead and consider this as me posing the question to him as well (except substitute "Christians" with "Muslims" and "Liberals").

I suspect he'd give a similar answer as you. I would indeed be interested in his "why."

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Why not? Surely, if Christian evangelism is "one of the most evil things you can imagine" then surely we would be much better off without them.

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yes, we would. which is why i said i would hit the button if it ended all religion.

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Is it perhaps because you, personally, would not want to be the one to push the button? Guilty conscience, maybe?

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who do you think the american prison system is filled with? is it atheists, or is it christians?

we're not the ones you need to worry about.

but to answer your dumb question, yes.

i would have a guilty conscience if i killed 2 billion people.

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The very essence of Christianity is the need for Mercy. You are right...lend no REAL love and mercy...receive none. Good luck.

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ah yes. another good and kind christian.

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

Luke 6: 27-28

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

Luke 6:35

so you read the words of jesus there and took it to mean, "lend no REAL love and mercy...receive none." is that right?

this is YOUR god, right? and YOUR faith?

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is it so hard to believe a country that was left in ruin after a brutal war could not be deceived by a madman who spewed the perfect rhetoric that a wanting populace desired? christian rhetoric. youre ignoring that part. he pretended to be christian to play to his audience (according to you) and they carried out genocide. what does that say about christians? quote: They truly believed Hitler would restore the country to prosperity and bring world peace.


oh i bet. we need to put all the handicapped into ovens and do surgical experiments on twins first, but then world peace, thats next on the list.

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You seem to be all over the place on this topic but you did finally admit that Hitler was deceiving the German populace with his Christian rhetoric. As for your comment about "what does that say about Christians (Germans I assume), we have no way of knowing how many Germans were devout practitioners of the Christian faith, I'll take a shot and say a minority.