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Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:47 am to xiv
quote:
As for any difference between “socialism” & “democratic socialism”
the difference is in the wording. that's it.
quote:
and “socialism” and “communism,”
socialism is the beginning stages of communism
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:48 am to Choctaw
“The goal of socialism is communism” -Lenin
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:49 am to SOSFAN
quote:
US mail service and Amtrack, which both lose millions if not billions annually
Don't forget VA and "Food Stamps"...
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:50 am to xiv
quote:
As for any difference between “socialism” & “democratic socialism” and “socialism” and “communism,” though...let’s keep those lines blurred. We have an agenda here.
Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
People’s Republic of China
Socialist Republic of Vietnam
Lao People’s Democratic Republic
Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
I think it’s the Socialists and Communists that have their definitions screwed up.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:50 am to DimTigerDontHate
quote:
We already live in a socialist society in many respects
fricking ignorance.
Can you define socialism?
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:51 am to DimTigerDontHate
quote:
Why are we afraid of Democratic Socialism?
Because we are not idiots and know the misery such a thing would bring
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:51 am to beerJeep
quote:
Sure it did. Rationed healthcare and long wait times for standard operations lead to deaths that would have been prevented had they been able to obtain their surgery in a timely manner.
Rationing of healthcare happens everywhere. It happens in the US too, where those who decide the rationing are opaque and insanely hard to contact. I've dealt with it for years working in a hospital, and I've seen firsthand doctors spend time arguing with insurance companies about tests their patients need. There are, of course, people in the US who died from lack of access to healthcare, but is that an indictment of capitalism the same way democratic socialism is responsible for the death of people who had to wait?
Not only that, the Beveridge model in the UK is functionally different from the NHI model in France. I'm sure you'll be able to explain the difference.
Regardless, the shape of Western European socialism was entirely different from the versions in Russia and China.
quote:
So why do the elites in these countries come to America when they want health care?
I have no idea how this follows from my point. Western European Socialist parties were voted in and out multiple times in multiple countries.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:52 am to DimTigerDontHate
JFC please don't give this troll 15 pages of replies.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:52 am to Choctaw
quote:
quote:
As for any difference between “socialism” & “democratic socialism”
the difference is in the wording. that's it.
Corrwct. Only retards think there's an actual difference.
The goal of any socialist is State control of the meansof production.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:53 am to IrishTiger89
quote:
infrastructure spending
That's a valid government function.
quote:
tariffs
That's a valid government function.
quote:
anti-Wall Street
What?
quote:
subsidization of coal
I think it was more roll back of regulations imposed by Obama.
But, government subsidies for vital industries (particularly those critical for safety and security) can be, in limited circumstances, consistent with small government conservatism (although you are taking steps away from good when you engage in this).
Hardcore, dyed in the wool Maxists-Leninists (which Bernie certainly is, despite what he calls himself or how he brands his movement, and the others are generally following his lead) want complete collectivization of most/all industries. And yes this was tried in the UK after the war and was mostly rejected by the time of Thatcher.
Hell, it was Britain's sort of visceral rejection to the unpleasant fallout of socialized industries that brought the Conservative Party back from the dead in the 80s and 90s. Boris Johnson is the PM today.
If you are voting Democrat in 2020, you are voting for (ultimately) collectivized industries such as healthcare, manufacturing, energy - the big stuff. Sure, #MayorCheat and even Bernie might let you keep your small restaurant or lawn cutting business. But the big money stuff? They're coming for it.
Bigly.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:56 am to crazy4lsu
quote:
Rationing of healthcare happens everywhere.
No it doesn’t. I can walk into the ER with a broken collar bone right now and receive medical attention.
My grandma found out last week she needs a hip replacement. She’s getting it done in less than 2 weeks.
quote:
It happens in the US too, where those who decide the rationing are opaque and insanely hard to contact.
Why the frick you lying boo?
quote:
I've dealt with it for years working in a hospital, and I've seen firsthand doctors spend time arguing with insurance companies about tests their patients need.
And yet, anyone who needs surgery receives it promptly. Weird how that works.
quote:
There are, of course, people in the US who died from lack of access to healthcare, but is that an indictment of capitalism the same way democratic socialism is responsible for the death of people who had to wait?
They didn’t die because they were waiting for medical treatment.
quote:
Not only that, the Beveridge model in the UK is functionally different from the NHI model in France. I'm sure you'll be able to explain the difference.
And neither are on par with the American model
quote:
Regardless, the shape of Western European socialism was entirely different from the versions in Russia and China.
Socialist are scum.
If you support socialism, you are scum.
You deserve nothing but a slow and agonizing death.
quote:
I have no idea how this follows from my point. Western European Socialist parties were voted in and out multiple times in multiple countries.
And yet, those who have the means, come here for treatment. While those with the means in America don’t fly to France or Britain for treatment
WHY
This post was edited on 2/12/20 at 9:58 am
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:58 am to Damone
quote:
It makes total sense that every single year people have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to insure... their own health.
I will pay more in taxes, once medicare for all is instituted, than my current insurance through my employer costs me. Why would I take an extra $10,000.00 a year tax burden on for shitty government insurance?? This makes better sense to you?
Posted on 2/12/20 at 9:58 am to DimTigerDontHate
quote:
Democratic Socialism
Because it doesn't exist. It's touted until they gain power, then greed takes over and the ones in power eat like Kings while everyone else eats tree bark and stray animals.
Socialist programs are wholly unconstitutional. Our government officials have been weaseling money out of our pockets for decades, stealing our tax dollars, and telling us all about how wonderful it is.
The massive problem is that it relinquishes power to the government, and we ALL KNOW they ruin everything they touch. Welfare is absolutely abused, SS is pillaged to fund other programs, and tax money is sent overseas to be washed and returned to those officials who voted to hook their buddies up.
I don't need you to take my money so you can give it back to me later in life. In the words of J.G. Wentworth..."It's my money, and i need it now"
This post was edited on 2/12/20 at 10:49 am
Posted on 2/12/20 at 10:00 am to crazy4lsu
"Democratic Socialists" remind me of Timothy Treadwell. A true believer devoured by that I need which he trusted.
Social democracy =\= Democratic socialism. But the Timothy Treadwells are otherwise convinced by narcissists running for office.
Social democracy =\= Democratic socialism. But the Timothy Treadwells are otherwise convinced by narcissists running for office.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 10:01 am to DimTigerDontHate
quote:
Why do I get the feeling that if public libraries and public schooling didn't already exist today, they would be seen as some far left radical socialist idea? (i.e. 'Why should we have to pay for someone else's kid to have an education or read books!?') We already live in a socialist society in many respects, and it has only worked towards the betterment of society.
How has public education worked? Test scores in the 1970's compared to today HAVE NOT CHANGED, yet funding has quadrupled in that time. So how has your socialism "worked"? School isn't a place to shelter warm bodies. It's supposed to be an institution of learning.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 10:01 am to DimTigerDontHate
Posted on 2/12/20 at 10:02 am to beerJeep
quote:
No it doesn’t. I can walk into the ER with a broken collar bone right now and receive medical attention.
What he means is that there are finite healthcare resources. Right now, the market forces that are allowed to operate in that area and individual choices are what naturally ration healthcare at its current capacity (and drive that capacity up or down, for that matter, broadly according to the law of supply or demand).
They say this to get you moving their direction, all the while avoiding the discussion that under single payer (or directly government run - there is little practical difference, but merely technical ones), the government will decide who gets what care and when (and most importantly, who will not get care).
Just like gun "control" isn't really about crime or safety, it's about control (with that one, easier to spot because it is in the name), or the AGW alarmism isn't really about the environment - this debate isn't about healthcare at all - the U.S. doesn't have a healthcare crisis, it has a cost crisis. Those espousing this government "solution" (to a problem that for once, they didn't create but are making worse) are ultimately interested in control.
It has always, ever and only been about control.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 10:03 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
But the big money stuff? They're coming for it.
I imagine retirement accounts will be high on the list.
Posted on 2/12/20 at 10:04 am to Meatflap
quote:
The military? We love funding the shite out of that.
Yeah throughout history it's been proven that free countries may need to protect themselves from communist ones.
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