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Started By
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re: US Marine captain writes stinging op-ed: 'We lost the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan'
Posted on 4/13/17 at 2:44 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Posted on 4/13/17 at 2:44 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
At the Basic School we had some really extensive discussions about the law of war and lawful orders. It was very much stressed that obeying an unlawful order was absolutely forbidden. “I was just following orders,” will not fly in the US Military.
You should have paid attention because this isn't the sole or primary reason for that.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 2:44 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Those wars had been largely won. We only lost cause Obama pulled the troops out after first announcing a year in advance his attention to do so.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 2:49 pm to Seldom Seen
quote:
Those wars had been largely won. We only lost cause Obama pulled the troops out after first announcing a year in advance his attention to do so.
Bush 43 signed the surrender documents in 2008.
"The U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement (official name: Agreement Between the United States of America and the Republic of Iraq On the Withdrawal of United States Forces from Iraq and the Organization of Their Activities during Their Temporary Presence in Iraq) was a status of forces agreement (SOFA) between Iraq and the United States, signed by President George W. Bush in 2008. It established that U.S. combat forces would withdraw from Iraqi cities by June 30, 2009, and all U.S. combat forces will be completely out of Iraq by December 31, 2011.[1] The pact required criminal charges for holding prisoners over 24 hours, and required a warrant for searches of homes and buildings that were not related to combat.[1] U.S. contractors working for U.S. forces would have been subject to Iraqi criminal law, while contractors working for the State Department and other U.S. agencies would retain their immunity. If U.S. forces committed still undecided "major premeditated felonies" while off-duty and off-base, they would have been subjected to an undecided procedures laid out by a joint U.S.-Iraq committee if the U.S. certified the forces were off-duty.[2][3][1][4]
The agreement expired at midnight on December 31, 2011, even though the United States completed its final withdrawal of troops from Iraq on December 16, 2011. The symbolic ceremony in Baghdad officially "cased" (retired) the flag of U.S. forces in Iraq, according to army tradition.[5]"
LINK
This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 4/13/17 at 2:49 pm to WhiskeyPapa
If true it looks criminal and should be punished. Won't argue with you there
My original response was in regards to this statement though
Our aircraft carriers and tanks (refferenced in OP) toppled the Afghanistani and Iraqi leadership and standing militaries, which was their purpose. Who we put in charge and the politics "post war" had nothing to do with these weapons' designed capabilities. Our military does not "suck" in regards to its capabilities. Certain military members may "suck" in regards to their moral compass if we are talking about Abu Ghraib
My original response was in regards to this statement though
quote:
No one should have any illusions -- our military basically sucks. It's purpose is not to win wars. It's purpose is to waste money
Our aircraft carriers and tanks (refferenced in OP) toppled the Afghanistani and Iraqi leadership and standing militaries, which was their purpose. Who we put in charge and the politics "post war" had nothing to do with these weapons' designed capabilities. Our military does not "suck" in regards to its capabilities. Certain military members may "suck" in regards to their moral compass if we are talking about Abu Ghraib
This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 3:13 pm
Posted on 4/13/17 at 2:50 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Our forces are incapable of conducting a war without massive bases with unheard of amounts of life support. You can go to almost any FOB in Iraq or Afghanistan right now and if no one told you any different you'd never know you were in a warzone. Wifi, steak and salsa nights and a gym every other block is the norm. The vast majority of people who have served in these conflicts suffered only as much as hardship as missing their summer vacations.
This is complete nonsense dude. There are plenty of shitholes left over there.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 2:53 pm to WhiskeyPapa
I've read this article before...back when it was written by War College students about how we lie to ourselves.
At least in that article, they didn't tie it to a foregone conclusion.
At least in that article, they didn't tie it to a foregone conclusion.
This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 4/13/17 at 2:53 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:The overall point is correct. Our people don't know how to fight insurgencies.
This is complete nonsense dude. There are plenty of shitholes left over there.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 2:53 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
This is complete nonsense dude. There are plenty of shitholes left over there.
Afghanistan.
This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:02 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Bush 43 signed the surrender documents in 2008.
The SOFA wasn't a surrender, and it wasn't the cause or result of the failures in Iraq. Bush, Clinton, and Obama all share blame for that with others, with Clinton and Obama taking the majority of it.
Clinton is largely responsible for the mess that Iraq was in the first place, and Obama? Well...
quote:
Obama inherited the power to restrain the sectarian impulses of President Maliki. Under Bush, U.S. military commanders had compelled Maliki to include Sunnis in the government and purge sectarian Shiites from the police. When Obama took over, however, he shifted authority from the Defense Department to Hillary Clinton’s State Department and to his Iraq pointman, Joe Biden. Soon thereafter, when Maliki began removing Sunni officers from the security forces, Obama’s representatives let him get away with it.
The Obama administration did at times exert restraining influence on Maliki while the United States still had 50,000 troops in Iraq. When Maliki tried to disqualify Sunni candidates in the 2010 parliamentary elections, U.S. pressure compelled him to reinstate the candidates.
In the aftermath of those elections, neither Maliki’s Dawa party nor the rival Iraqiya party could garner a parliamentary majority. Obama could have ensured that someone other than Maliki became prime minister, a course of action recommended by CENTCOM commander General James Mattis, who deemed Maliki too sectarian and pro-Iranian. Instead, Obama threw America’s weight behind Maliki on the advice of Biden, who believed Maliki to be less sectarian and less beholden to Iran than critics claimed.
That's only a small part of what he fricked up.
I'd be embarrassed that you were a Marine Officer, but fortunately you didn't do shite while you were in. Sit down and shut up about things you know nothing about.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:03 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
The overall point is correct. Our people don't know how to fight insurgencies.
No it isn't. We know exactly how to fight them. We were just never allowed to do it without intervention from DC.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:04 pm to TX Tiger
quote:
TX Tiger
You are the brightest poster on this board.
I read every post in every thread I read.
You GET IT.
Our military is doing exactly what it was intended to do. There is no failure to those at the top.
Gaddahfi--got out of line: became a soddomized pinata.
Saddam--got out of line: hung live on internet for the world to see.
Osama bin Laden--the joker who initiated it all: bullets from Seal Team Six.
Assad---brother you got to go
Iran---biatches--your turn is next
North Korea--it's time to get steppin.
Eventually China will turn. They are the key player in all of this. When they turn; we stop. That simple.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:05 pm to WhiskeyPapa
does this guy not understand the difference between winning a war and succeeding w/the subsequent occupation and rebuild?
We are great at kicking the shite out of people. Rebuilding their countries as an occupying force? Ehh... It's quite a bit more difficult.
We are great at kicking the shite out of people. Rebuilding their countries as an occupying force? Ehh... It's quite a bit more difficult.
This post was edited on 4/13/17 at 3:09 pm
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:06 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
WhiskeyPapa
OP I tend to agree with your views most of the time. Seems you've gone a bit off the deep end trying to defend this. What's up?
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:07 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:Nah. We don't spend enough time or money on understanding who we're fighting or the languages they speak. Passing the buck to Washington is a pretty lame excuse. The military could have pressured Washington more if they wanted to. They didn't.
We know exactly how to fight them.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:09 pm to Navytiger74
quote:
I bet we had some endstates written down. We didn't hit them.
The ways and the means let us down!
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:11 pm to WhiskeyPapa
Afghanistan.
Afghanistan.
Afghanistan.
Afghanistan.
Afghanistan.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:14 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Nah.
We do.
quote:
We don't spend enough time or money on understanding who we're fighting or the languages they speak.
That doesn't mean we don't know how. We just don't do it.
quote:
Passing the buck to Washington is a pretty lame excuse.
Don't care. It's accurate.
quote:
The military could have pressured Washington more if they wanted to. They didn't.
Not the military. Officers entrenched in DC and its politics.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:26 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Okay now you're just rewording all of my positions and agreeing with me
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:28 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Okay now you're just rewording all of my positions and agreeing with me
His contrarianism knows no bounds! Not even when arguing with himself.
Posted on 4/13/17 at 3:30 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Okay now you're just rewording all of my positions and agreeing with me
quote:quote:
Nah.
We do.
Wrong from go.
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