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Started By
Message
re: Two Immutable Facts about Immigration
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:05 am to ChineseBandit58
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:05 am to ChineseBandit58
That's half the problem - the Dems have ZERO answers other than to open the borders and go full sanctuary policy.
1
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:11 am to VoxDawg
At least I'm in good company...
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:15 am to VOR
quote:
What’s going on is a policy decision, not black letter law.
False.
Also, this was the law supported and passed by the 9th circuit court of appeals under freaking Clinton.
The NINTH circuit.
But y'all want to make it about Trump
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:18 am to VoxDawg
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:20 am to VoxDawg
quote:
If we have no borders, we have no country.
We have borders.
quote:
If we have no laws (or enforce the rule of law), we have no country.
Ever gotten out of a speeding ticket? Should we have detectors on vehicles and issue tickets every time someone breaks the law?
Remember the traffic light cams? Everyone of those people broke the law. People bitched and complained about them. Seems people like to pick and chose which laws are malleable.
This post was edited on 6/19/18 at 9:23 am
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:22 am to i am dan
Man, these traffic analogies are just wrecking y'all....
Deflect, deflect, deflect, I suppose.
Deflect, deflect, deflect, I suppose.
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:23 am to VoxDawg
quote:
Man, these traffic analogies are just wrecking y'all.... Deflect, deflect, deflect, I suppose.
Which laws are breakable? Can I get a list? You are so fringe.
The two main points of the OP is we have no border and we don't enforce our laws.
We have a defined border and we choose when to enforce our laws, depending on severity and past experience.
This post was edited on 6/19/18 at 9:27 am
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:26 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
This is nothing more than another spur-of-the-moment tear-jerk issue de jour that the DEMOCRATs bring up with things are not going their way on their last debacle.
Spot on. Dems needed something to deflect from the North Korea meeting.
When this passes, the Dems will find some new outrage.
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:39 am to i am dan
quote:
The two main points of the OP is we have no border and we don't enforce our laws.
You're remarkably dense if that's what you took away from what I wrote.
Let me regroup: How would I explain this to a Teletubbie?
If we don't protect and defend our borders from invading foreign nationals, then it's tantamount to not having borders in the first place.
Not enforcing border laws is the same as not having them. We're keenly aware that that was the de facto policy of the previous administration. Despite having control of the WH and both houses of Congress from 2008-2010, they didn't do a damned thing to change the laws that told the poor, beleaguered brown Hispanish people that if they want to come to the US, there's a process to follow. Instead, they chose to use all of their political capital to ram through a socialist healthcare bill that seized control of 17% of the US economy in the dark of night.
The simple fact that you conflate CITIZENS breaking the law by driving faster than the posted speed limit or running a red light with FOREIGN INVADERS streaming across our border with absolute disregard for our laws, our culture and our society tells me everything you need to know about your broken POV.
Extending even the slightest inkling of due process that is afforded to US citizens to foreign nationals who no more belong here than they do on the moon is an absolute miscarriage of justice.
Simply put, membership (in this case citizenship) has its privileges.
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:46 am to VoxDawg
Democrats have really chosen this hill to die on. They have demonstrated that open borders is their most important issue. Economic concerns, foreign policy, yeah they’ll bitch and moan some. But don’t dare try to close that southern border.
Again, never forget the tantrum liberals threw when Trump tried to temporarily pause immigration from some horrific Muslim countries. That right there showed just how mentally unstable these people are.
Again, never forget the tantrum liberals threw when Trump tried to temporarily pause immigration from some horrific Muslim countries. That right there showed just how mentally unstable these people are.
Posted on 6/19/18 at 9:49 am to VoxDawg
quote:
You're remarkably dense if that's what you took away from what I wrote. Let me regroup: How would I explain this to a Teletubbie?
Name calling and shite.. good job.
quote:
Not enforcing border laws is the same as not having them.
We don't enforce other laws 100% of the time. Do they not exist? DOT laws are laws just like immigration laws. They actually do save lives though.
We have thousands and thousands of laws in this country. You may know about 2% of the ones that exist. Probably not even that much. Rest of your paragraph is just political dribble.
quote:
The simple fact that you conflate CITIZENS breaking the law by driving faster than the posted speed limit or running a red light with FOREIGN INVADERS streaming across our border with absolute disregard for our laws, our culture and our society tells me everything you need to know about your broken POV.
A law is a law is a law. Right? Super fringy take on the matter. Foreign invaders and shite? Wow. So goddamned fringy.
This post was edited on 6/19/18 at 9:54 am
Posted on 6/19/18 at 10:04 am to i am dan
quote:
DOT laws are laws just like immigration laws. They actually do save lives though.
You were saying?
quote:
Edwin Jackson, 26 Son, Friend, Colt's Football Player
Allegedly killed by Manuel Orrego-Savala, 37
Manuel Orrego-Savala, a/k/a Alex Cabrera Gonsales, 37, a Guatemalan illegal alien living in Indiana has been arrested for causing the death of Edwin Jackson, 26. Indiana State Police said that Orrego-Savala was driving drunk and crashed into the stopped vehicle in which Jackson was a passenger. Jackson and his Uber driver died from their injuries.
Like most cowardly illegal aliens, Orrego-Savala reportedly failed to aid the victims and attempted to flee the scene of the accident on foot but was taken down and arrested.
It was reported that Orrego-Savala was not only allegedly drunk, but was driving without a license, and had previously been deported from the U.S. in 2007 and 2009.
Jackson's teammates remembered their friend as someone who was not only a great football player but also someone who took the time to aid community groups and institutions such as Riley Children's Hospital.
Source: Edwin Jackson was killed by a twice-deported illegal immigrant. Now the Colts' Player's death is par of the Indiana Senate race, By Philip Wegmann, Washington Examiner, 2-6-18
quote:
Apolinar Altamirano, 29, an unauthorized Mexican illegal alien DREAMer, has been arrested for the January 22, 2015 first-degree murder of Phoenix Quick Trip store clerk Grant Ronnebeck, 21.
Altamirano is accused of shooting Ronnebeck and stealing two packs of cigarettes after the 21-year-old clerk demanded payment before giving Altamirano any cigarettes.
The murder was recorded on the store's security camera and police captured Altamirano after a high speed chase in Phoenix. Altamirano had previous run-ins with local police and Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In 2012, he pleaded guilty to facilitation to commit burglary and got probation but was placed in deportation proceedings.
Before the murder of Ronnebeck, Altamirano was released on a $10,000 bond in 2013 from ICE custody despite the defendant's own claims of ties to the Mexican Mafia. After his release, but before Ronnebeck's murder, Altamirano also allegedly threatened to kill two people, resulting in harassment injunctions against Altamirano. Altamirano reportedly entered the U.S. illegally at the age of 14 and prior to his arrest, worked illegally as a landscaper.
Source: Suspect in Mesa QT killing faced deportation proceedings, By Arizona Central, 1-27-15
quote:
Illegal alien drug smugglers from Mexico murdered Kristopher William Eggle, 28, on August 9, 2002.
Kris Eggle was murdered while working as a U.S. National Park Ranger at the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument in Arizona. In 2000, Eggle accepted the ranger position at Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. Eggle had previously worked as a ranger at other NPS parks, including Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore and Canyonlands National Park.
Because of Organ Pipe's proximity to the US border with Mexico, NPS rangers duties included intercepting Mexican drug smugglers. Eggle was shot and killed August 9, 2002 while tracking Mexican drug smugglers through the national park in Arizona. In honor of Eggle, the U.S. Congress passed a law in 2003 dedicating the visitor center at Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument as the Kris Eggle Visitor Center.
Eggle, who grew up in Cadillac Michigan, was an Eagle Scout and was an outstanding student. He graduated high school in 1991 and was the valedictorian of his class. He went on earn a degree in wildlife biology from the University of Michigan. He also received the Director's Award for outstanding achievement at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.
Kris was known by his family, friends, and park visitors as an outstanding worker and human being. He is dearly missed by his family and friends.
Source: National Park Service website
I'm willing to bet you don't have the balls to make it more than 10 minutes on that site, reading the bios of folks not named Kate Steinle who were killed by human beings who had no business being in this country in the first place.
This post was edited on 6/19/18 at 10:06 am
Posted on 6/19/18 at 10:10 am to VoxDawg
quote:
let's look at the ones who willfully break the law
My point is that EVERYONE willfully breaks the law. We don't simply go around mindlessly obeying all laws, we pick and choose based on circumstances and level of risk. What posters on here like to say is that 'we are a nation of laws, and those who break the laws will suffer the consequences - except me, when I break the law it's with good reason, or it's just not that big of a deal.' Threat of legal consequences are not why we obey laws, we obey laws, generally, when they are common sense. Don't drive recklessly, don't take other people's shite, don't kill other people... When laws go against common sense, they are largely ignored - often with little consequences. It's all about personal responsibility. I don't operate my vehicle according to the law, I operate my vehicle according to what I believe is safe for me and others on the road.
quote:
Illegal invaders from another country don't care. The rule of law doesn't apply to them.
They believe, just like everyone else, that extenuating circumstances justify their breaking of laws. The risk reward analysis says that it's worth it. We ALL do this, it's just that you don't like it when other people ignore laws that you think should be adhered to - even though those laws will never apply to you. If they did, and the well-being of your family was at stake, you would probably take the risk as well.
Posted on 6/19/18 at 10:11 am to VoxDawg
Okay, we should have breathalyzers in all vehicles for startup so nobody can ever drive their vehicle while intoxicated again.
Bet I can find more Americans killed by drunk drivers than illegal immigrants.
You wanna bet? Why did you leave the "a law is a law" argument and jump over to this? I'm not advocating for illegal immigrants. I'm arguing your logic.
Good post.
Bet I can find more Americans killed by drunk drivers than illegal immigrants.
You wanna bet? Why did you leave the "a law is a law" argument and jump over to this? I'm not advocating for illegal immigrants. I'm arguing your logic.
quote:
WildTchoupitoulas
Good post.
This post was edited on 6/19/18 at 10:14 am
Posted on 6/19/18 at 10:11 am to VoxDawg
"VoxDawg"
You, Sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. A completely accurate and reasonable observation.
It is becoming clearer and clearer as the years, months, and days roll on that the "progressive left " are not interested in immigrant children, families, Blacks, Hispanics, Sumatrans, Hittites, women, homosexual rights, transgender rights, and aging porn actresses for any other reason than to exploit them and their particular issues to maintain political power and expand it. More often than not, as with the current hot button immigrant children, the "progressive left's" goals are best served by keeping a solution at bay while blaming conservatives.
When will people open their eyes and ears and throw these evil people out of our government?
You, Sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. A completely accurate and reasonable observation.
It is becoming clearer and clearer as the years, months, and days roll on that the "progressive left " are not interested in immigrant children, families, Blacks, Hispanics, Sumatrans, Hittites, women, homosexual rights, transgender rights, and aging porn actresses for any other reason than to exploit them and their particular issues to maintain political power and expand it. More often than not, as with the current hot button immigrant children, the "progressive left's" goals are best served by keeping a solution at bay while blaming conservatives.
When will people open their eyes and ears and throw these evil people out of our government?
Posted on 6/19/18 at 10:37 am to i am dan
quote:
Bet I can find more Americans killed by drunk drivers than illegal immigrants.
Of course you will. You'll also find that there are more Golden Retriever bites than pit bulls - because there are more Goldens than pit bulls.
The fact remains that folks on the left in this thread are hung up on the traffic analogies and don't see the larger point...
You can straw man the speeding ticket risks all day long, but none of the original goalposts of my OP have moved.
Posted on 6/19/18 at 10:47 am to VoxDawg
You're just picking what to be pissed about. Nothing more. Pitbulls account for more deaths and disfigurements than any other dog. Maybe we should ban them. They seem dangerous.
Okay, I'll play. What's the larger point? Saving American lives right? You posted the stories about American dying to illegals.
Then you should prioritize speed governors and on board breathalyzers then. They would save many more American lives than immigration enforcement. Larger point right? If that was your point.
Truth is this is a political argument and you jumped to your side. Hey, it's kinda normal for that to happen in today's political climate.
Okay, I'll play. What's the larger point? Saving American lives right? You posted the stories about American dying to illegals.
Then you should prioritize speed governors and on board breathalyzers then. They would save many more American lives than immigration enforcement. Larger point right? If that was your point.
Truth is this is a political argument and you jumped to your side. Hey, it's kinda normal for that to happen in today's political climate.
This post was edited on 6/19/18 at 10:49 am
Posted on 6/19/18 at 10:47 am to WildTchoupitoulas
Never said that myself of anyone else is exempt from the consequences of breaking any given law. If I get on the interstate and drive faster than the posted speed limit, I run the risk of the consequences of my actions. Hell, I probably speed every single day. If I get caught once a year, then I'm doing better than 1/3rd of 1%. That's a pretty damn good set of odds.
I acknowledge this by saying that they feel the rules don't apply to them. Same goes for the "gots to be havin'" crowd who feel they need to take someone's property at the point of a gun to get a car, TV, cash/jewelry, etc.
One of the many problems illegals introduce into the equation is that it's never just the initial crime of line jumping. It's the identity theft and SSN fraud they commit trying to skirt I-9/E-Verify laws; the drunk driving; the gang activity; the drain on society when they crank out the anchor babies, taking advantage of poor interpretation of the 14th Amendment, which was never meant to naturalize the spawn of invading foreign nationals.
Although I don't always agree with her, Ann Coulter said it best, this week:
quote:
They believe, just like everyone else, that extenuating circumstances justify their breaking of laws.
I acknowledge this by saying that they feel the rules don't apply to them. Same goes for the "gots to be havin'" crowd who feel they need to take someone's property at the point of a gun to get a car, TV, cash/jewelry, etc.
One of the many problems illegals introduce into the equation is that it's never just the initial crime of line jumping. It's the identity theft and SSN fraud they commit trying to skirt I-9/E-Verify laws; the drunk driving; the gang activity; the drain on society when they crank out the anchor babies, taking advantage of poor interpretation of the 14th Amendment, which was never meant to naturalize the spawn of invading foreign nationals.
Although I don't always agree with her, Ann Coulter said it best, this week:
quote:
No, Chuck Schumer, I do not want to see illegals separated from their children. I want to see them separated from our country.
Posted on 6/19/18 at 10:55 am to i am dan
quote:
What's the larger point? Saving American lives right? You posted the stories about American dying to illegals.
That was solely in response to your comment:
quote:
DOT laws are laws just like immigration laws. They actually do save lives though.
The implication was that immigration laws don't have any bearings on the lives of citizens, unlike traffic laws. The list of American citizens murdered by illegals speaks volumes to the contrary. Again, you go straight to arguing a point no one was making. You keep going back to strawmanning the premise like it has sentimental value. You took off tilting at the traffic deaths windmill on your own. I just humored you by refuting your implication.
The overarching point isn't saving lives. It's enforcing our immigration laws, closing/defending/protecting our border, and by extension our sovereignty.
I couldn't give two shits about the quality of life of folks outside of the US, in most cases. I am adamantly passionate about it being invaded by others who would like to drag our own way of life down to their own Third World standards.
Posted on 6/19/18 at 11:01 am to VoxDawg
quote:
The implication was that immigration laws don't have any bearings on the lives of citizens, unlike traffic laws. The list of American citizens murdered by illegals speaks volumes to the contrary. Again, you go straight to arguing a point no one was making. You keep going back to strawmanning the premise like it has sentimental value. You took off tilting at the traffic deaths windmill on your own. I just humored you by refuting your implication.
No. I'm arguing law here. You took us down the dead American stories road. I didn't. I presented a set of laws that people abuse All THE TIME, EVERYDAY. Traffic laws are not 100% enforced. Probably not even close. Should we start enforcing them to 100% before they no longer exist?
That's my argument.
quote:
I am adamantly passionate about it being invaded by others who would like to drag our own way of life down to their own Third World standards.
I've heard we can become a third world country as early as next week if this continues. Scary.
This post was edited on 6/19/18 at 11:04 am
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