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re: Turtle shitting on using money to bail out state pensions
Posted on 4/22/20 at 12:53 pm to The Maj
Posted on 4/22/20 at 12:53 pm to The Maj
quote:
Also, many states negotiated such plans with unions that were stupid to start with. Full medical post retirement, 70% of base salary, etc. The retirees did not put the money in for that...
Maybe what y’all are saying is true of some states. TRS in Georgia for instance is not that generous and they take money by force from teachers and counties for it. They also have to pay a good bit for their medical. I think their pensions are a bit over the top, but not to the level you describe and I know those who retire early in life contribute 100s of thousands by govt force. To just take that would be wrong.
2
Posted on 4/22/20 at 12:55 pm to mightyMick
The problem is the politicians are owned by the public sector unions, that's how we got these obscene pension deals in the first place.
Bankruptcy will allow a neutral 3rd-party to force the deals to be changed in administration. It isn't possible for an elected official to do what needs to be done.
The problem with bankruptcy is that the investment firms would then need a federal bail-out which they will get.
Bankruptcy will allow a neutral 3rd-party to force the deals to be changed in administration. It isn't possible for an elected official to do what needs to be done.
The problem with bankruptcy is that the investment firms would then need a federal bail-out which they will get.
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:18 pm to The Maj
quote:I'm wondering the same. Why should taxpayers of other states be saddled with the burden of IL politician's malfeasance? "Retirees" should see their money from those politicians if they want vengeance.
he money was often used for other things in years gone by.
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Ok, so where is it the Federal government's responsibility to bail out States for being stupid?
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:19 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:What makes it "right" to take it from taxpayers? Especially those in other states?
To just take that would be wrong.
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:21 pm to GeauxTrain
quote:Me and you have very different definitions of "need". Muni-holder took their risks. It's not like any of this is a surprise. I posted about it in 2012 LINK
The problem with bankruptcy is that the investment firms would then need a federal bail-out which they will get.
This post was edited on 4/22/20 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:23 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
To just take that would be wrong. What makes it "right" to take it from taxpayers? Especially those in other states?
I’m not advocating for that. The article in the OP was about McConnell wanting to allow states to file bankruptcy. I’m opposed to that, which you were advocating for above. Might as well let the US do the same.
This post was edited on 4/22/20 at 1:24 pm
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:30 pm to Dawgfanman
That's not how Louisiana's state systems work either.
Louisiana's higher pension costs are mostly due to improper funding on the state side for decades. This underfunding also put pressure on the retirement systems to seek higher than logical rates of return to keep state employer contribution rates lower. Scooping off excess investment returns for COLAs hasn't helped either (but recent legislation should fix that going forward.)
If properly funded, the state should actually do better under it's retirement plans than paying into social security. (Higher burden on employee than state employer under retirement systems vs equal rate under SS).
The only assistance I could honestly ever see for state pensions would be for the UAL generated by the recent stock market drops. Outside of that, you created the mess, you deal with it.
Louisiana's higher pension costs are mostly due to improper funding on the state side for decades. This underfunding also put pressure on the retirement systems to seek higher than logical rates of return to keep state employer contribution rates lower. Scooping off excess investment returns for COLAs hasn't helped either (but recent legislation should fix that going forward.)
If properly funded, the state should actually do better under it's retirement plans than paying into social security. (Higher burden on employee than state employer under retirement systems vs equal rate under SS).
The only assistance I could honestly ever see for state pensions would be for the UAL generated by the recent stock market drops. Outside of that, you created the mess, you deal with it.
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:31 pm to Dawgfanman
quote:Then I do not understand your position at all. You're saying it would be wrong not to pay the "pensioners" their unreasonably over-promised pensions. That isn't going to happen no matter what. There is no money unless it comes from "someone else".
I’m not advocating for that. The article in the OP was about McConnell wanting to allow states to file bankruptcy. I’m opposed to that, which you were advocating for above.
quote:It will happen. And the government cheese will stop flowing.
Might as well let the US do the same.
This post was edited on 4/22/20 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 4/22/20 at 1:34 pm to LSULaw2009
quote:the blame transfer is fun to watch.
improper funding on the state side ... keep state employer contribution rates lower
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