quote:
And if people are as self-interested and corruptible as you describe, “just let everyone do their thing” would not magically produce better outcomes.

Better is relative. Lassaiz faire works far better than communism, but it leads to other inefficiencies that are less than ideal. The upside of liberty is that one man’s greed is checked by other greedy men because the government isn’t giving one greedy man monopolies. Every man’s greed must compete against the greed of others.

Like I said, this can lead to serious consequences as well, but also extremely rapid growth so long as it is paired with rule of law and a robust tort system for settling disputes, protecting private property rights, and enforcing contracts. Granted, that rant is dangerously close to getting into Austrian school economics of Murray and Rothbard, which is a conversation for a different day.

The reality is that a balance must be maintained, but exactly what that balance is is incredibly difficult to measure, achieve, or understand.

However, it is very easy to see the failures of communism when you look around in a communist nation and realize that everything is broken, nothing is getting repaired, and everyone is hungry. Meanwhile, in more capitalist systems, the poor have such abundance to eat that they are dying of obesity.

It’s difficult to know exactly what metrics to prioritize to chase success, and the difference between good and great may be vague, but it’s not hard to notice what economic failure looks like.

This post was edited on 12/5/25 at 12:17 pm

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Posted by 4cubbies

Member since Sep 2008

58907 posts

Posted on 12/5/25 at 12:24 pm to kingbob

quote:
Better is relative. Lassaiz faire works far better than communism, but it leads to other inefficiencies that are less than ideal.

True. It works better than feudalism, too. I still think there is a better system we haven’t uncovered because we are so committed to whatever version of capitalism we currently use in the United States. Historical comparison shouldn’t stop at the 20th century.

quote:
everything is broken, nothing is getting repaired,

I thought you were describing New Orleans for a minute.

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Meanwhile, in more capitalist systems, the poor have such abundance to eat that they are dying of obesity.

This assumes all poor people experience that “abundance.” Plenty are homeless and hungry. And obesity isn’t evidence of economic health like it was from the dawn of time through the 19th century. Obesity is often a sign of food deserts, low wages, and cheap calorie-dense food being the only accessible option. That’s (appropriately) a structural outcome, not prosperity.

quote:
It’s not hard to notice what economic failure looks like.

Sure, but identifying failure is not the same as identifying justice. A system can “function” while still producing deeply unjust results. Our disagreement isn’t about which models collapse quickest as much as we disagree about how to evaluate outcomes for marginalized people who don’t have market power.

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