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Message
re: The ISP/privacy issue, the dilemma and "conservatives"
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:08 pm to Centinel
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:08 pm to Centinel
quote:
If by data you mean actual layer 7 data as long as you're using HTTPS or a VPN, then no.
quote:
The Google audit shows that 79 of the web’s top 100 non-Google sites don’t deploy HTTPS by default, while 67 of those use either outdated encryption technology or offer none at all. The worst offenders include big names, like the New York Times and IMDB. (For what it’s worth, WIRED doesn’t currently offer HTTPS either. But we’re working on it.) That’s a big number, especially considering that these 100 sites combined comprise about 25 percent of all website traffic worldwide. It turns out that we’ve got a very vulnerable web
quote:
If you’re on HTTP, the entire URL and page content is visible to anyone on the network between you and that site. Every page you went to on that site. Any search terms. What articles you’re reading,” says Tim Willis, HTTPS Evangelist at Google. “If you’re on HTTPS, only the domain of the website is visible and not the page you’re looking at. Anyone on the network can still tell what website you went to, but it’s very difficult to determine what you did on that site.”
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 5:10 pm
1
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:10 pm to CorporateTiger
quote:
Letting Comcast off the hook by allowing them to establish effective monopolies then repealing government regulations allowing them realize even more profit for their monopoly isn't "small government"
Again. Not one thing change in either direction with this. Name one part of what was repealed that was in affect. You can't it was not.
Comcast does not own a monopoly. As much as I hate them, they don't.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:12 pm to jeff5891
quote:
jeff5891
How old is that article? NYT most certainly uses TLS. So does Wired for that matter.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:13 pm to League Champs
quote:
Universities are part of the Internet backbone
Yea, a very small part.
think bigger. There are major companies that provide the majority of the backbone nets. quote:
The packet is assigned an IP address buy its ISP. The backbone has no idea who that IP address was assigned to. Only the ISP does (and the NSA of course) So a backbone has no valid purpose in selling your info for ad revenue, because they know virtually nothing about you
Not true
quote:
If you’re on HTTP, the entire URL and page content is visible to anyone on the network between you and that site.
You connect to an ISP which connects to the backbone which connects to another ISP which connects to the server your visiting.
When did you agree to terms with that second ISP?
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 6:00 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:14 pm to Centinel
quote:
lolwut? I really hope you aren't shopping on websites that aren't using HTTPS.
Offline. If I physically drive down to the store, and use the same card to pay for groceries that I'm using to pay for my internet access, then yeah, they have that information.
That's the entire point. They know when you're getting coffee in the morning. They know when and where you're going to be put gas in your car. They know where you do your banking. They can take all of that offline information and bundle it with your browsing profile to create a new tier of premium data.
AT&T's AdWorks is operational on cable/satellite packages as well as online videos. Comcast's ad network operates on TV networks owned by NBC Universal as well as their own Xfinity site. Verizon gobbled up AOL, and now they're about to purchase Yahoo. AT&T is looking to close in on Time Warner.
This was the final piece for most of these companies. Combining your offline life with your online life to create premium data to sell.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 5:18 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:15 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Again. Not one thing change in either direction with this. Name one part of what was repealed that was in affect. You can't it was not.
Ok?
quote:
Comcast does not own a monopoly. As much as I hate them, they don't.
I'm using Comcast as the face of the ISPs here, but it isn't a sole monopoly by them. It is though a concerted effort to strangle competition and give the established companies as much market dominance as possible.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:17 pm to Cs
quote:
Offline. If I physically drive down to the store, and use the same card to pay for groceries that I'm using to pay for my internet access, then yeah, they have that information.
That's the entire point. They know when you're getting coffee in the morning. They know when and where you're going to be putting gas in your car. They know where you do your banking. They can take all of that offline information and bundle it with your browsing profile to create a new tier of premium data.
What the frick dude. That makes ZERO sense. How in the hell does your ISP know when you buy gas? That shite isn't sent clear text man come on.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:17 pm to jeff5891
quote:
And I doubt it's improved much since then especially or if the top 100
I think you'd be surprised, especially for any website that is used to generate revenue through online sales. PCI requires it.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:21 pm to Centinel
quote:
What the frick dude. That makes ZERO sense. How in the hell does your ISP know when you buy gas?
What do you think all of this is about?
They have your credit card information, because they're charging you for internet access. They combine this with your purchase history from various data brokers (LINK). Suddenly, they have a nice profile detailing not only your online behaviors, but your offline activity as well.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 5:24 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:28 pm to Cs
I like that the argument most grab to defend this is that other people are doing it too.
Setting aside the unique difference in context between an ISP that often has near monopoly power in a given area, and the barriers to entry as a competitor are often near impossible to crack, vs a company on the internet you choose to visit and take part in. That is a bizarre tactic to me.
It fails to even make the attempt to justify this ethically or philosophically. Heck it even fails to be a justifiable comparison.
Setting aside the unique difference in context between an ISP that often has near monopoly power in a given area, and the barriers to entry as a competitor are often near impossible to crack, vs a company on the internet you choose to visit and take part in. That is a bizarre tactic to me.
It fails to even make the attempt to justify this ethically or philosophically. Heck it even fails to be a justifiable comparison.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 5:30 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:30 pm to Centinel
quote:
I think you'd be surprised,
quote:LINK
Recent telemetry data from Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox shows that over 50 percent of web traffic is now encrypted,
That's not a lot
quote:Im keeping a broader sense
especially for any website that is used to generate revenue through online sales. PCI requires it.
A lot of wiki type sites and forums don't
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 5:31 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:30 pm to Cs
quote:
They have your credit card information, because they're charging you for internet access.
You stated offline.
But let's switch it. You used the card online. You did that. The same as you chose to use google or an apple product.
The ISP does not have access to the gas station and is no privy to that data. The ISP has no owner ship in your card and no way of tracking it's use.
So again, the argument goes back to the idea that the GOP changed anything is false. You may feel like all of this needs to change. That's great. We can talk about that. However, nothing was in place to stop it.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:33 pm to MButterfly
quote:
So again, the argument goes back to the idea that the GOP changed anything is false. You may feel like all of this needs to change. That's great. We can talk about that. However, nothing was in place to stop it.
They prevented a regulation that would define clear lines to ISP's that would need to be followed in order to collect a person's data and sell it. Namely, a consumer would have to opt in to such an agreement. What we are left with is a 'promise' that IP's will let people opt out, but there is no clear cut guidelines for how that will take place. They could theoretically put it on some random corner of their website under layers of complexity and never make a formal announcement.
Yes, the rules were not in place yet, I guess for pointing that out someone gets some internet brownie points. Though it would be just as pertinent to point out the numerous posters that are ridiculously trying to argue that this rule will bring costs down and benefit the consumer, which is undercut by the fact that it hasn't done so yet.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 5:35 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:34 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
the barriers to entry as a competitor are often near impossible to crack
Can you list an area where barriers are keeping monopolies in place?
quote:
vs a company on the internet you choose to visit and take part in.
The point being made is you chose both. It's not a hard thing to under stand.
1- you have choices in ISPs. You shop at a store for your service.
2- Online, you shop or visit the store you want.
Neither of those address the overall topic that the GOP didn't kill internet privacy. Nothing changed.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:37 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
They prevented a regulation that would define clear lines to ISP's that would need to be followed in order to collect a person's data and sell it.
what regulation was in affect that was canceled?
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:52 pm to MButterfly
quote:
Can you list an area where barriers are keeping monopolies in place?
I feel like this is something anyone that wants to get involved in this discussion should of helped themselves to a basic primer on already. How can one make sweeping assertions or take sides not even knowing the underlying market dynamics at play? You are basically admitting to arguing from a position of ignorance. No offense.
Though the first question you should probably ask is perhaps why is it that there are so few competitors? If you think otherwise, can you confirm it? That is my challenge to you. I posted data earlier in the thread that says pretty clearly competition is minimal to non-existent for half the country or more.
But here are some sources you seem to demand because you havent looked into this issue yourself.
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
quote:
The point being made is you chose both. It's not a hard thing to under stand.
1- you have choices in ISPs. You shop at a store for your service.
2- Online, you shop or visit the store you want.
Neither of those address the overall topic that the GOP didn't kill internet privacy. Nothing changed.
See my post on page 2. You are just factually wrong that most people have numerous choices.
And you seem to be knighting for the GOP while arguing the trees and missing the forest.
What the GOP is doing is undermining efforts that would of created transparency and aided in privacy barriers for consumers. Allowing them to chose whether they wanted their data collected or not. If you want to defend preventing that, go right ahead. But trying to win the argument on a technicality seems pretty silly when it just sidesteps the actual discussion.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 5:57 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 5:55 pm to MButterfly
quote:
The ISP does not have access to the gas station and is no privy to that data. The ISP has no owner ship in your card and no way of tracking it's use.
A company called Acxiom made about $800 million in revenue in 2015 by selling personalized data profiles based largely on purchase history. It would be pointless for Google or Facebook to purchase such data, because they have no reliable way to tie that data into the data collected via their own services.
ISPs, on the other hand, are different. They have your payment information, because they're already charging you a monthly rate. They know where you live, too. So, they can pay companies like Acxiom for their data profiles, and then can combine that information with their own tracking of your online behavior.
Own a 2010 Camry, but looking to upgrade to an Acura TLX? It would tough for Google or Facebook to know any of that information unless you posted about it explicitly and extensively. Your ISP, though? They can buy data that tells them all about your purchase of the 2010 Camry, and now they can track your behavior online as you look at various cars websites and dealerships. They know where you live, so if it's in the northeast, they could serve up ads for snow tires...for certain Acura models. Or rubber floor mats for Acura sedans.
Take that example and apply it to nearly every facet of your life. This is the type of insanely invasive tracking that they can now engage in.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 5:59 pm
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:11 pm to jeff5891
quote:
When did you agree to terms with that second ISP?
You don't even know, that you don't know what you are talking about
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:14 pm to Cs
quote:
They have your credit card information, because they're charging you for internet access.
They don't have my credit card information. I don't use my CC to pay for my internet service. Next.
quote:
They combine this with your purchase history from various data brokers (LINK). Suddenly, they have a nice profile detailing not only your online behaviors
That data does not include your CC number. Hell this damns the content providers even more. NEXT.
quote:
but your offline activity as well.
No. just no dude. Stop. You're making a fool of yourself.
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