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Started By
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re: Robert E. Lee was a bad arse Southern gentleman.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 8:47 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 8/27/17 at 8:47 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
You are a good sport DB. I am going to call a truce until next time. No hard feelings.
This post was edited on 8/27/17 at 8:48 pm
1
Posted on 8/27/17 at 8:51 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
That is an example of true leadership.
True, but not good leadership. A better leader would have listened to Longstreet. I actually like Lee, for the most part. He made mistakes, and he owned them. Hell, I use a lot of his words to argue with the Southerners in my family. It's always interesting when one of them thinks I'm quoting "some Yankee."
Posted on 8/27/17 at 8:52 pm to AU86
Well, that's just no fun.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 8:55 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Lee was between a rock and a hard place. Both in Maryland the previous year and Pennsylvania in 1863, his soldiers deserted in droves when they "invaded" the North. But he could not stay on the defensive in the South, trying to protect the Shenandoah Valley and Richmond. He had to strike a decisive blow. His greatest failing in leadership was his belief in the ability of his soldiers. And he had no suitable replacement for Jackson. At Gettysburg he could not wait for the Union to attack him (which Longstreet preferred) because they were not going to be that aggressive. And he was deep in enemy territory. He had to act.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:07 pm to Wolfhound45
I understand why Lee did it. And there were many factors why it failed. The Confederate leadership slipped into "That Seven Days Fog" at Gettysburg. A lot of mistakes were made by Confederate leaders to help lose that battle. Lee missed Jackson badly. But many other Confederate subordinate officers made many mistakes at Gettysburg. Lee won on the first day and came really close on the second. He was sucked in by fate and hope to order the charge. Pickett's Charge ultimately was a mistake. Meade and Hancock earned their pay at Gettysburg and the federal army fought well there. Gettysburg was the biggest "What If Battle" of that war for the Confederates.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:07 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
His greatest failing in leadership was his belief in the ability of his soldiers.
Correct, and this is why he failed. Longstreet predicted Pickett's Charge would be completely ineffective, and he was right. Lee may not have had many options, but he certainly chose one of the worst.
Have you been to the Gettysburg Battlefield? That, and Fredericksburg are two of my favorite places to visit.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:10 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Been to Gettysburg about 6 times. I have led tours for people that we went up with at the Devils Den. Been to Fredericksburg twice.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:12 pm to Themole
quote:
I appreciate a good sense humor, that was funny.
Missed this. I can't believe more people didn't find that funny. That shite was hilarious, and fit perfectly with the flow of the thread.
No one appreciates my humor.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:15 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:A staff ride is the opening week of the Army War College. It was an incredible experience. My elective was Antietam where I played the part of Jackson. Really helped me appreciate the challenges of command during the Civil War. Until then I was "meh" at best about that time in history.
Have you been to the Gettysburg Battlefield?
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:18 pm to Wolfhound45
I have had the opportunity to participate in Educational programs at Antietam, Shiloh, Chickamauga, Kennesaw Mtn. and many other smaller battlefields as a volunteer. I think Antietam is my favorite battlefield.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:24 pm to AU86
Fredericksburg is always a surreal place for me. The first time I went I was very young, but I was obsessed with Civil War history. I've been to that area many times for training, and I always enjoy the opportunity to go back. I could spend all day at the stone wall just sitting and thinking.
Might have to schedule a trip out that way.
Might have to schedule a trip out that way.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:26 pm to Wolfhound45
That's awesome. I need to retire so I can travel more.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:29 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Sad that so much of that battlefield has disappeared. That was the Pickett's Charge for the North. The last time I visited there, I hit Spottysylvania, The Wilderness and Chancellorsville during the visit. Spottysylvania is worth reading about. That battle was pure hell. Lots of hand to hand in terrible conditions.
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:36 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Was at Fort AP Hill over two years ago. Took a ride up to Fredericksburg and did a quick walk through of the battlefield. Was amazed at how little of it remained.
As a medic, my favorite part;
As a medic, my favorite part;
Posted on 8/27/17 at 9:39 pm to Wolfhound45
Kirkland was later killed while leading a charge on Snodgrass Hill at Chickamauga as a Lt. That Monument is awesome at Fredericksburg.
Posted on 8/28/17 at 12:33 pm to geauxbrown
quote:
Because they wouldn't use the men at their disposal and failed to follow up the few victories they had.
So what you're saying here is that not just any boob can win with those advantages? Okay. That's all I needed you to say.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 1:57 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Have you been to the Gettysburg Battlefield?
I was there in 1988 with a buddy of mine. Both of us are dyed in the wool southern boys. We went in a little light hearted, that didn't last long. I didn't feel worthy of walking on that Hallowed Ground once we made it out to the battlefield.
That was a switch point in my life, concerning those who fought and died in the civil War on both sides.
There are only three places I have been in my life that humbled me to watery eyes; Gettysburg, Arlington National Cemetery and The Vietnam Veterans Memorial.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 2:00 pm to _Hurricane_
He was a traitor and a loser, and the only reason you remember him is because some racists wanted you to.
Enjoy that, though.
Enjoy that, though.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 2:01 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
because some racists wanted you to.
Posted on 8/31/17 at 2:06 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Too bad he choose poorly when it came to what side to fight on when America was being existentially threatened
quote:
The South, in my opinion, has been aggrieved by the acts of the North, as you say. I feel the aggression, and am willing to take every proper step for redress. It is the principle I contend for, not individual or private benefit. As an American citizen, I take great pride in my country, her prosperity and institutions, and would defend any State if her rights were invaded. But I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, and I am willing to sacrifice everything but honor for its preservation. I hope, therefore, that all constitutional means will be exhausted before there is a resort to force. Secession is nothing but revolution. The framers of our Constitution never exhausted so much labor, wisdom, and forbearance in its formation, and surrounded it with so many guards and securities, if it was intended to be broken by every member of the Confederacy at will. It was intended for "perpetual union," so expressed in the preamble, and for the establishment of a government, not a compact, which can only be dissolved by revolution, or the consent of all the people in convention assembled.
quote:
He had earlier been asked by one of his lieutenants if he intended to fight for the Confederacy or the Union, to which Lee replied, "I shall never bear arms against the Union, but it may be necessary for me to carry a musket in the defense of my native state, Virginia, in which case I shall not prove recreant to my duty."
He was also in talks to lead the Union forces prior to Virginia's succession.
Another fun nugget is that Robert E Lee was against confederate monuments
LINK
This post was edited on 8/31/17 at 2:07 pm
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