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Message
re: Regarding Lois Lerner's proclamation of innocence and the Fifth Amendment
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:23 pm to C
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:23 pm to C
quote:
If your boss calls you into your office and asks you to explain what happened, can you plead the fifth and keep your job?
What's the point of the question? Darrell Issa is not Lois Lerner's boss.
2
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:25 pm to Rex
quote:
What's the point of the question? Darrell Issa is not Lois Lerner's boss
Exactly what I'm talking about. You don't want to know what happened. Congress has oversight responsibilities. A govt employee hindering an investigation should be fired on the spot.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:29 pm to Rex
quote:No oversight eh?
What's the point of the question? Darrell Issa is not Lois Lerner's boss.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:29 pm to C
quote:
Congress has oversight responsibilities. A govt employee hindering an investigation should be fired on the spot.
That's just stupid. Would you have said the same if Nancy Pelosi had tried to prosecute one of Bush's CIA operatives in an attempt to uncover incriminating evidence against Bush?
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:30 pm to C
quote:
If your boss calls you into your office and asks you to explain what happened, can you plead the fifth and keep your job?
Let's not drift from the issue.
An ordinary witness under subpoena can proclaim their innocence and may continue to answer questions and may stop short at any time as long as they haven't made incriminating statements.
If you think there is other controlling legal authority here, please offer it.
Whether or not Lerner could be fired is another issue.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:32 pm to Rex
quote:
That's just stupid
Seriously? You don't think the executive branch needs oversight?
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:32 pm to Decatur
How about this proggies.....
No matter what Obama has immunity. do you now support an investigation?
No matter what Obama has immunity. do you now support an investigation?
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:35 pm to C
only when a racist evil republican is in the white house.
dems are good and nice.
dems are good and nice.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:36 pm to Decatur
Be totally honest, Rex.
Let's say the tables were turned. If the exact same thing happened under a Conservative Administration, you wouldn't think anything smelled fishy? With the emails? Pleading the Fifth? Reports of taped phone conversations where IRS employees were urging callers to vote for Obama? To you, those would all be just actions of rogue employees not engineered by the Party? Not a scandal?
I think that is what is so frustrating to me. Corruption needs to be ferreted out of BOTH parties. We keep having scandals like IRS, Benghazi, Fast & Furious, etc. and the politicians keep telling us that they're going to leave no stone unturned to get to the bottom of this. But nothing ever happens. In fact, NO stones seem to ever be turned over.
Let's say the tables were turned. If the exact same thing happened under a Conservative Administration, you wouldn't think anything smelled fishy? With the emails? Pleading the Fifth? Reports of taped phone conversations where IRS employees were urging callers to vote for Obama? To you, those would all be just actions of rogue employees not engineered by the Party? Not a scandal?
I think that is what is so frustrating to me. Corruption needs to be ferreted out of BOTH parties. We keep having scandals like IRS, Benghazi, Fast & Furious, etc. and the politicians keep telling us that they're going to leave no stone unturned to get to the bottom of this. But nothing ever happens. In fact, NO stones seem to ever be turned over.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:36 pm to C
quote:
Seriously? You don't think the executive branch needs oversight?
Of course it does. That doesn't mean you end the Constitution's separation of powers or its Fifth Amendment.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:36 pm to Decatur
quote:
Let's not drift from the issue.
Just sad really. No morals. No sense of how this further weakens our democracy. The divide will keep getting deeper.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:39 pm to Decatur
quote:
Let's not drift from the issue. An ordinary witness under subpoena can proclaim their innocence and may continue to answer questions and may stop short at any time as long as they haven't made incriminating statements. If you think there is other controlling legal authority here, please offer it.
They may not offer testimony, then refuse to answer on cross though.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:42 pm to Decatur
quote:
Show me the corruption here. I haven't seen any so far with this IRS "scandal".
Colluding between members of congress and federal agencies about which organizations to audit could never be corruption right?
LINK
quote:
I don't just assume the corruption without first seeing evidence of it.
Consider the case of Catherine Engelbrecht:
quote:
During her opening testimony, Engelbrecht recounted the close scrutiny her family and her small business underwent from multiple federal agencies soon after she applied for her group’s tax-exempt status, suggesting that the reviews may have been politically motivated. “After nearly 20 years of being in business,” Engelbrecht, said during the hearing, “and no agency coming to visit with us, the succession of agencies that have now come to us — for all manner of things — begs the question.”
So which agencies decided to visit her?
This is part of the transcript from her testimony:
quote:
“Ms. Engelbrecht,” Jordan said, “in the first 20 years of business, did OSHA ever visit your place of business?”
“No sir,” she responded.
“Never once?”
“No sir.”
“After you filed the [tax-exempt application for King Street Patriots], OSHA visited then, right?”
“Yes sir.”
“In the first 20 years of business did the [Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives] ever come to your business?” Jordan continued.
“No sir.”
“And they came a couple times once you filed your application?”
“Yes sir.”
“And in your first 20 years of business, did the IRS ever audit you?”
“No sir.”
“But once you filed your application, they audited you?”
“Many times.”
“And in your first 20 years of business, did the FBI ever visit you?”
“No sir.”
“But once you filed your application, did they visit you?”
“Six times.”
“Mr. Connolly wants us to believes that’s all a coincidence.”
Again, no corruption, all coincidence.
quote:
There's an ongoing FBI investigation. If there is any "there" there then I assume they'll find it.
I've lost faith in our government to prosecute those who actually break crimes. The only ones who get prosecuted are those chosen with the "wide discretion" of AG Holder (his words). He prosecutes those not on the friendly side of Obama, and goes after those against the president.
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:43 pm to Clete Purcel
quote:
Be totally honest, Rex.
I'm being totally honest. From the very beginning Darrell Issa has conducted this "investigation" in a partisan manner, first instructing his inspectors to focus entirely on Tea Party violations then cherry-picking emails and memoranda to selected reporters in an obvious attempt to buttress one line of prearranged and biased attack. He accused the Obama Administration of orchestrating an anti-conservative IRS vendetta despite the lack of one iota of evidence, and then has felt compelled to back up those allegations with one-sided leaks.
Emails? Show them ALL, not just the cherry-picked ones.
Pleading the Fifth? Any lawyer worth his salt would have advised the exact same thing given that the whole point of her hearings was entrapment and not a search for truth.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:44 pm to Rex
Too bad she testified to innocence and specific allegations and didn't invoke the 5th.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:47 pm to C
quote:
No sense of how this further weakens our democracy.
Republicans are seeking to deny a US citizen of her Bill of Rights protections, even when they know they'll be unsuccessful, and you're crying about weakening the democracy? Seriously?
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:48 pm to Alahunter
quote:
They may not offer testimony, then refuse to answer on cross though.
Do you have a quarrel with how the District Court for DC rules on this particular issue?
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:48 pm to Rex
No you're right rex. I'm sure nothing happened. And if it did, who really cares.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:49 pm to Alahunter
quote:
oo bad she testified to innocence and specific allegations
She didn't testify to any specific allegations.
Which specific allegations did she address? Name the time, place, and allegation of each incident.
Posted on 4/10/14 at 12:50 pm to Rex
quote:
Which specific allegations did she address?
She provided written testimony and testified to it's truthfulness.
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