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re: President Trump promises to end birthright citizenship

Posted on 12/9/24 at 10:44 am to
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135758 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 10:44 am to
quote:

Did Bidens tariffs help the economy?
Asked and answered.

You claim without evidence they hurt economic growth.
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297836 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 10:48 am to
quote:


You claim without evidence they hurt economic growth.


quote:

History and research have shown that the economic effects often fail to live up to the hype.


quote:

The 2018 tariffs imposed by Trump did not result in an immediate boost to manufacturing employment but instead led to a net loss of jobs and rising prices for consumers due to higher input costs and retaliatory tariffs, Federal Reserve economists noted in a 2019 paper.
LINK


BTW: 2019 is when Trump begged the fed for help.
This post was edited on 12/9/24 at 10:55 am
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297836 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 10:48 am to
quote:

Did Bidens tariffs help the economy?
Asked and answered.


Is that a yes or no?

If Americans can buy a car for 10k, what does that do to disposable income in this country?
This post was edited on 12/9/24 at 10:50 am
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10734 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 10:54 am to


I don't know about "economic growth," as that is a pretty vague term, but it did hurt American consumers.

Want evidence? Let's start with Obama's tariffs.

Here you go: CNN

The study referenced is from the Peterson Institute.

Here's the Tax Foundation on the Trump/Biden tariffs:

Tax Foundation

There's no tariff that isn't going to have these effects, regardless of who imposes it. It's amazing to me that there's anybody left in 2024 who thinks otherwise.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135758 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 10:56 am to
quote:

Federal Reserve economists noted in a 2019 paper.


Come on Rog!
Those are the same nitwits who throttled the Trump economy and were taking big heat for it when they overshot.

Goodness, man!
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297836 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 11:02 am to
quote:

Those are the same nitwits who throttled the Trump economy


Is it your opinion that they throttled Bidens economy, because rates are higher under him than Trump?
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135758 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 11:03 am to
quote:

There's no tariff that isn't going to have these effects
That depends on compensatory subsidies, etc.

In China's case those included:

Direct Subsidies: The Chinese government provided direct financial support to affected industries, such as agriculture and manufacturing, to help them absorb the costs of tariffs and maintain production levels.

Tax Reductions: China implemented tax cuts and exemptions for businesses impacted by the tariffs, reducing their overall tax burden.

Currency Manipulation: China devalued its currency to make its exports more affordable.

In other words, China subsidized US government tariff revenue and minimized US consumer impact.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135758 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 11:06 am to
quote:

Is it your opinion that they throttled Bidens economy
Of course. But in Trump's case the intervention was nonsensical. In Biden's case, it was unavoidable and late in coming.

Do you understand why?
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297836 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 11:07 am to
quote:

Of course


Interest rates are still low.

The issue is we were overheating the economy after 2009 with spending and low rates, QE.

Americans got addicted to artificially cheap money
This post was edited on 12/9/24 at 11:08 am
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
25236 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 11:12 am to
The children born here of foreign diplomats don't get birthright citizenship. The same should be true for those born here from parents who are here illegally.

Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10734 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 11:20 am to
quote:

That depends on compensatory subsidies, etc.

In China's case those included:

Direct Subsidies: The Chinese government provided direct financial support to affected industries, such as agriculture and manufacturing, to help them absorb the costs of tariffs and maintain production levels.

Tax Reductions: China implemented tax cuts and exemptions for businesses impacted by the tariffs, reducing their overall tax burden.

Currency Manipulation: China devalued its currency to make its exports more affordable.

In other words, China subsidized US government tariff revenue and minimized US consumer impact.


All that means is that China paid for (some of) it.

The effects were still there.

And did you not look at the links? All of those subsidies only lessened the negative impact on American consumers (as you said, "minimized"). It didn't eliminate it.
This post was edited on 12/9/24 at 11:22 am
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297836 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 11:55 am to
quote:

Wait!
Either they were turrrible, horrrrrrrible, awful economic and innovative drags ... or they did nothing.


Does it matter?

It cost the consumer, lowered wages and didnt cauase ANY growth.

We paid for absolutely nothing, except less choice and higher prices.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135758 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 12:26 pm to
quote:

Interest rates are still low.

The larger issue in terms of economic growth impact is the delta.

The Fed, after inexplicably running rates up and slowing the Trump economy, sat on its hands in the spring of 2021 as inflation shot up. The Fed, in its infinite wisdom, ignored supply-demand mismatch due to Mayor Pete and Potatobrain's incompetence dealing with supply chain and labeled inflation as "transient." Remember?

The problem is every 1% increase in Treasury Auction Rates equates to an additional 1/3rd of a trillion dollars in annual debt financing, and our debt cost-of-carry soared, synched with inflation.

The Fed then had no choice but to use monetary policy (the only tool in its shed) to attempt to correct it. So it finally raised rates, which gradually brought inflation back down, negatively affecting the economy in the process.



Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
297836 posts
Posted on 12/9/24 at 12:31 pm to
quote:

The Fed, after inexplicably running rates up and slowing the Trump economy


Trump slowed the Trump economy. Yall are chasing ghosts.


quote:

In 2019, the Federal Reserve cut interest rates by a quarter of a percentage point three times, which is what Powell called a "mid-cycle adjustment"1. The federal funds rate, which affects the cost of mortgages, credit cards, and other borrowing, was then between 1.5% and 1.75%2.


Thats still incredibly low.


This post was edited on 12/9/24 at 12:36 pm
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