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re: "Pope" Francis destroying the Catholic church brick by brick

Posted on 10/3/23 at 10:29 pm to
Posted by Juan Betanzos
New Orleans
Member since Nov 2005
4182 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 10:29 pm to
I can tell that many of the priests (if not all) int the Diocese of BR absolutely LOVE them some Pope Francis. The pastor at STM thinks he’s a rockstar!!!!!
Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
24838 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 10:46 pm to
quote:

e) For this reason, pastoral prudence must adequately discern whether there are forms of blessing, requested by one or more persons, that do not transmit a mistaken conception of marriage. For when a blessing is requested, one is expressing a request for help from God, a plea for a better life, a trust in a Father who can help us to live better.



That’s straight from his response to the dubia.

For those asking for a link

Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
24838 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 10:50 pm to
quote:

RESPONSE: Negative.


Then he goes on to say except…

quote:

e) For this reason, pastoral prudence must adequately discern whether there are forms of blessing, requested by one or more persons, that do not transmit a mistaken conception of marriage. For when a blessing is requested, one is expressing a request for help from God, a plea for a better life, a trust in a Father who can help us to live better. f) On the other hand, although there are situations that from an objective point of view are not morally acceptable, pastoral charity itself demands that we do not simply treat as “sinners“ other people whose guilt or responsibility may be due to their own fault or responsibility attenuated by various factors that influence subjective imputability (cf. St. John Paul II, Reconciliatio et Paenitentia, 17). g) Decisions which, in certain circumstances, can form part of pastoral prudence, should not necessarily become a norm. That is to say, it is not appropriate for a diocese, an episcopal conference or any other ecclesial structure to constantly and officially authorize procedures or rites for all kinds of matters, since everything “what is part of a practical discernment in particular circumstances cannot be elevated to the level of a rule,“ because this “would lead to an intolerable casuistry“ (Amoris Laetitia, 304). Canon law should not and cannot cover everything, nor should the episcopal conferences claim to do so with their various documents and protocols, because the life of the Church runs through many channels in addition to the normative ones.


So negative, except when in the interest of pastoral care you “feel” it’s warranted.

It’s akin to the seemless garment argument propagated by McCarrick that has been the source of “confusion” around abortion in the church since it was written.

Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
24838 posts
Posted on 10/3/23 at 10:54 pm to
quote:

now we see why you did not post a link. dumbass


I did down thread. Dumbass.
quote:

e) For this reason, pastoral prudence must adequately discern whether there are forms of blessing, requested by one or more persons, that do not transmit a mistaken conception of marriage. For when a blessing is requested, one is expressing a request for help from God, a plea for a better life, a trust in a Father who can help us to live better. f) On the other hand, although there are situations that from an objective point of view are not morally acceptable, pastoral charity itself demands that we do not simply treat as “sinners“ other people whose guilt or responsibility may be due to their own fault or responsibility attenuated by various factors that influence subjective imputability (cf. St. John Paul II, Reconciliatio et Paenitentia, 17). g) Decisions which, in certain circumstances, can form part of pastoral prudence, should not necessarily become a norm. That is to say, it is not appropriate for a diocese, an episcopal conference or any other ecclesial structure to constantly and officially authorize procedures or rites for all kinds of matters, since everything “what is part of a practical discernment in particular circumstances cannot be elevated to the level of a rule,“ because this “would lead to an intolerable casuistry“ (Amoris Laetitia, 304). Canon law should not and cannot cover everything, nor should the episcopal conferences claim to do so with their various documents and protocols, because the life of the Church runs through many channels in addition to the normative ones.

Posted by STEVED00
Member since May 2007
23157 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 6:21 am to
quote:

e) For this reason, pastoral prudence must adequately discern whether there are forms of blessing, requested by one or more persons, that do not transmit a mistaken conception of marriage.


So the ask is to essentially bless a non sexual relationship with someone of the same sex? Would desire to have children be considered a mistaken conception of marriage?

Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
24838 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 9:05 am to
quote:

So the ask is to essentially bless a non sexual relationship with someone of the same sex?


So we are going to pretend like gay me. Living together and in a committed relationship are doing so as brothers and not having sexual relations?


Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining.
Posted by Foch
Member since Feb 2015
804 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 9:47 am to
quote:

Stop pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining.


Is Pope Francis clear in his language and direct in his condemnation in a way that would make me happy? No.

Has the Pope changed anything or condoned heresy? No.

Do people on the left and right of the political spectrum force him into a box that suits their agenda? Yes.

Does he fall into their box through his ambiguity? Yes.

Is he the valid Pope? Yes.

Do you reject the Pope and/or his office? If your answer is yes, please consider why it is your place to pick and choose what part of Christ's Church you can submit to.

Instead of lighting fires or inciting disturbances amongst Catholics pray the for Holy Father.

Consider the example you set out for our fellow protestants who are searching for the stability of mother Church and only see discord. We (Catholics) wish for them to join in the Sacraments with us. We are charged with evangelizing. Are your message board posts going to further your fellow man's journey to the Sacraments or are they going to undercut and foster feelings of wariness?

This post was edited on 10/4/23 at 9:48 am
Posted by STEVED00
Member since May 2007
23157 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 11:29 am to
I am just trying to understand what is happening. At the end of Mass when the priest is greeting the people, if you ask him for a blessing then he typically will give you one. This week in many places, priests are blessing pets in honor of St. Francis.

I have also heard some divorced/remarried people have gotten their marriages “blessed”. Is this kind of the same thing?
This post was edited on 10/4/23 at 1:08 pm
Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
24838 posts
Posted on 10/4/23 at 1:42 pm to
quote:

At the end of Mass when the priest is greeting the people, if you ask him for a blessing then he typically will give you one.


Not really, we are here talking about "couples" who are living outside of the confines of church teaching on homosexuality and are presenting as such.

Asking Father after Mass for a blessing individually (for whatever reason) is usually done by those who are seeking to live in a state of grace, those in a homosexual relationship cannot live in a state of grace.

quote:

I have also heard some divorced/remarried people have gotten their marriages “blessed”. Is this kind of the same thing?




Depends, if the divorced/remarried people went through the annulment process and were married in the church they are validly married, so not at all.

If the divorced/remarried couple had one or both not annuled at the time of marriage (maybe they weren't even Catholic at the time of their subsequent marriage) and then they went through the annulment process and seeking a blessing still no - they have taken the necessary steps (according to church teaching and canon law) to have a now valid marriage.

If the couple in question are remarried, without an annulment of their first, and are just living as such and seeking a marital blessing and the priest is aware fo their specific situation, then yes. And just like the gay couple they should NOT receive a blessing over their invalid marriage. In fact, they are living in the same sin as the gay couple.

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